The Great Indian Rope Trick – Election 2009
The Great Indian Rope Trick – Election 2009Updated: For people that want to understand the manifestos of the key parties, this single page PDF from The Hindu is a good source. Some people on Twitter seem to think we didn’t read the manifestos.
The biggest circus of 2009 – the Indian Parliamentary Election – has ended. The decisive mandate has left many stunned & speechless. I measure my feelings by the Richter scale – so I’m – devastated. We are inundated by claims from Talking Heads that Indians have voted for Stability, Secularity or Pro-Nuclear Deal. All that bunkum has left me slightly nauseous.
To my utter consternation, Sukumar Rajagopal is pleased as punch. Since our reactions are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, in the true spirit of democracy, we had a discussion to understand each other’s perspective. For Parliament literally means, “Speak Your Mind”.
Priya: I’m extremely depressed by the election results. But inexplicably, you’re as happy as a sun-bathing cat.
Sukumar: This is a positive vote for Stability. It allows the Congress to pursue their policies without being hobbled by the Left. What bothers you so much?
Priya: Well, I expected a change. So many things are hopelessly wrong today. And now, tomorrow won’t be any different. Doesn’t corruption bother people any more? Billions of $$ were gobbled up by the DMK goons in Spectrum Allocation. Congress let Quattrochi escape – and here’s the cropper – our Prime Minister almost apologized for putting him through “all the trouble”.
Sukumar: I agree, corruption is an endemic problem in the Indian system. I wonder if anyone can clean it up. As for Quattrochi, what did the BJP do when they were in power for 5 years? They could have easily put all the Bofors scamsters behind bars. What prevented them from doing it?
Priya: So, nothing will clean up India – short of a miracle? I don’t know, I think there are clean leaders in India, that can make a difference. Such as Modi or Nitish Kumar. How about Homeland Security? Terrorists attack us with impunity. Take the ghastly attacks in Mumbai, the nerve center of India. I think Congress – while not exactly soft – isn’t hard enough on terror.
Sukumar:Terrorism is an international scourge. There’s no easy solution. What did BJP do during Kandahar, Babri Masjid or the Godra riots? That doesn’t inspire confidence, at least not mine. Will wonders never cease? You – of all people – are rooting for Modi? Talk about a volte face!
Priya: About Kandahar – BJP freed some terrorists to save 184 passengers. What would you have them do, let a bunch of innocent people die? I don’t have to be a trident wielding, saffron clad Hindutva activist, to appreciate Modi’s administrative prowess. He has indeed reduced corruption in Gujarat. As an honest person that longs for a cleaner government, its hard not to appreciate Narendra Modi for that. But yes, I’m unable to shake the bad taste in my mouth that the Godra riots have created.
Why do you support Congress? What have they done?
Sukumar: If Modi is loved in Gujarat, how did Congress win more seats in this election than in 2004? Even the margins of victory for BJP have come down in Gujarat!
You have to remember, Congress came to power on the Aam Aadmi plank. Their NREGA is a damn good program, that guarantees employment for the rural poor. But what is more heartening to me is – they continued Sarva Siksha Abhiyaan – BJP’s well-thought out education program.
Priya: Now that you mention it, Praful Patel has performed stupendously by privatizing airports. Laloo Yadav turned the creaking, groaning, inefficient Indian Railways around.
Sukumar: Patel did that in the face of severe opposition! Turning around Railways was thought to be an impossible task. Almost, a Labor of Hercules!
Priya: Still, they had strange bed-fellows. They made CBI their hand-maiden, so that murderers like Shibu Soren could go scot-free. And how about the two-faced Communists. According to them, supporting the United States is unpatriotic. But, they’ll readily sell us to China! “Isms” of all shades disgust me. Not to mention the despicable DMK. Congress never even let out a squeak when Karunanidhi insulted the sentiments of the Hindu majority, by stating that Ram & Sita were siblings. Just so a DMK minister could execute the Sethu Samudram project & line DMK pockets. But, no one was taken to task.
Sukumar: Yes, DMK shouldn’t have done that. You & me, we are non-believers, but we respect the beliefs of others. But, DMK? They are just hypocrites who wouldn’t dare question the beliefs of the minority. I’m certainly glad that they don’t trample on the sentiments of at least some pockets of the society!
Communists were the fly in the ointment for the Nuclear Deal. That’s another achievement of the Congress-led UPA. They resisted all attempts by the Left to sabotage the deal. They stood their ground.
Priya: I still have some grievances around River Water Sharing. Mainly, Cauvery Water. They couldn’t enforce the Supreme Court’s order on Karnataka. They were impotent even when SM Krishna’s Congress government was in power in Karnataka. What’s the use of a National party, if it won’t abandon petty regional interests?
Sukumar: Could BJP make it happen, when it was in power? No one wants to jeopardize their vote banks. I’m happier with a moderately competent government, that is peace-loving & non-threatening to communal harmony. Rather than a potentially competent – yet, rabidly communal government! The latter can cause severe harm to India’s stability as a society.
Priya: Let’s cut the bull, Sukumar. The lower strata of the society voted in droves. When I spoke to some of them, they didn’t even realize that voting for the Parliament (Center) & the Assembly (State) were different. None of them knew about the Nuclear Deal. Most didn’t care about corruption. So how did BJP botch this election? They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory!
Sukumar: I don’t think the Common Men & Women are too disillusioned with Congress. BJP mismanaged their campaign. Advani never proposed good schemes. He didn’t attack the astronomical prices of essential commodities – even though their prices have gone up by 30-40% or even 100-200%, thanks to galloping inflation. That’s a hot button issue for the lower strata. BJP never addressed such basic concerns. Instead, they reopened Ram Janma Bhoomi! Clueless of them.
Priya: I guess you’re right about the Center. But, what about the state? Why didn’t people reject the puke-worthy DMK? I’m shocked that they didn’t face a stronger anti-incumbency wave. Their blatant, shameless promotion of their family members is scary. When Azhagiri’s faction reportedly burnt down the Dinakaran (Newspaper) office, 3 innocent people died. No action has been taken so far – Diddly Squat.
Sukumar: Yes, that is indeed deeply troubling. However, there has been a significant swing of 15% against DMK. Unfortunately 10% of that went to DMDK, Vijayakanth’s party – whose sole reason for existence seems to be to split the ADMK vote! What was Jayalalitha thinking, when she gave so many seats to PMK, MDMK & the Left? Had ADMK contested on those constituencies, it might have changed the outcome of this election, at least in Tamil Nadu.
Priya: I’m grief stricken that the anti-incumbency vote in Tamil Nadu was only 15%. Law & Order has gone to the dogs. DMK distributed money openly to buy votes. Electricity or lack of it in Tamil Nadu, has been nothing short of a disaster! So many small industries went bankrupt thanks to the inept handling by Arcot Veerasamy, the Electricity Minister. How did people forgive DMK?
And while we suffered from Inflation, Terrorism, Rowdyism & Shortage of Electricity, the DMK Supremo fasted for foreigners – Srilankan Tamils. I’ve never felt more insulted before.
Sukumar: IMHO, the most important reason for ADMK’s failure is Jayalalitha’s inability to propose solutions that provide hope. Right now, she merely criticizes DMK on every single thing under the sun. I would accuse BJP of the same foible. Neither parties had a proposal that could galvanize people to rally around them & vote for them.
Priya: When will this change? Are we doomed to put up with Congress & DMK?
Sukumar: BJP & ADMK have their work cut out for them. They have to understand the pulse of the Common People, think of Bold Policies to energize the masses. BJP has the unenviable task of finding a replacement for Advani. Will it be Modi? They better get cracking on cleaning up his “Minority Baiter” image. Not that Advani has a clean image either, what was he – an innocent bystander when Babri Masjid was destroyed?
Readers – What do you think? We’ve reached an impasse. Is there any hope for India? Is BJP our ticket for better governance? Or is it the Secular Congress? Tell us! We’d love to hear from you.
Priya/Sukumar, unless one is a hard-core congress/BJP/DMK supporter, any independent voter would have gone through these questions.
I dont know much about TN. But I can speak of AP. CBN has wonderful ideas. His cash-transfer scheme (2K per family per month) instead of subsidies is a hallmark scheme. Direct money to the woman of poor families instead of subsidies. Eliminating the PDS in between. But he immediately added free power, free TV and what not. And no mention of health in a big way. On the other hand, Congress, in the last 5 years – free uninterrupted power, irrigation projects in a scale unheard of, Arogya-Sree (poor people getting top rate corp hospitals treatment which only rich can afford).
I pooh poohed these schemes as scams to make more money, until – one of my close relatives (not so good economically), 4 days back had to undergo a major brain surgery. Went into a corp hospital and get this surgery done. And the bill – literally 0 Rs. Including medicines. Which means, until a schemes benefit reached me I never knew the value of it.
Just imagine, of say 10K villages, even if one person had taken such benefit without paying a bribe, that person becomes a spokesperson for the party.
I am not denying the fact that – Congress Govt is corrupt, some schemes are too pro-poor while many others benefiting contractors, weak sounding PM. But Sonia to her credit, allowed Mr Singh much more freedom than Sangh Pariwaar had given BJP coalation.
Over all, I am neither too happy. But strangely not unhappy. I would have been if BJP had come. I think most of the electorate are like that. They dont necessarily love congress. But they hate BJP. That makes them automatically Congress voters.
What do you think?
I agree with suku
INC can push reforms at least, moreover BJP has no base in east coast(140+), from kerala until bengal.(kerala not exactly east but you got the point I guess)
How can a party which has neither candidates nor allies in these 140+ rule South Block ?(note INC & iits allies did vv well in these). Its a new an interesting development since all fringe irritants have been decimated or pushed to the wall(paswan,vaiko,left,prp,amar-lalu etc. )
Vamsi – Thanks for your comment.
Yes, we did hear glowing & damning comments on YSR, from people in Andhra. I’m simply amazed by his focus on agriculture. I also love the Arogya Sree idea – Healthcare, Education – these should be free for all, at least at a basic level.
Naidu thinks like a typical Senior Management professional. I’d love to dismantle the inept, corrupt PDS system in India too. But, he didn’t understand what the lower strata of the society wanted.
I don’t think the Hindu majority hates BJP. The minorities probably hate them, 110%
The core base of BJP hasn’t grown & they’ve done nothing to grow it. Most Indians have no taste for Hindutva rhetoric, since we are a generally peace-loving, happy-go-lucky nation. Rabid fundamentalism puzzles & bores people. They may pay some attention, but they’d rather watch a movie with Rakhi Sawant in it 
BJP should start focusing on policies that resonate with people. Like more jobs, better Healthcare, better roads etc.
Ashutosh – Thanks for your comment.
Yes, you make a very good point. BJP is a negligible force in some states, such as Tamil Nadu. In the South Chennai constituency, where Brahmins are a crucial vote bank, the “Tamil Nadu Brahmins Association” (TAMBRAS) requested its members to vote for BJP. Most of them ignored the request & voted for ADMK, the “other” right wing Hindu party.
If BJP wants to not embarrass itself in 2014, it should focus on growing its base. Or, in getting good alliance partners. Most parties don’t want to alienate minorities, so they choose to have alliances with “secular” (read anything except BJP & its coterie).
Sukumar & Priya:
Although I do not agree with either of your view points fully, I must admit it is an interesting read.
(One person/party’s mistake does not condone / approve similar behaviour by the other.)
It was as exciting as watching presidential debate on TV!
Will be looking forward for more such interesting debates!
Good discussion. Here are my thoughts…
Corruption: All Indian politicians are corrupted, even George Fernandes is corrupted means 99% of Indian politician corrupted. People who are not corrupted in India is called “Hippy”, “Buffoon” and “Mad Scientist”. So when we asked to select a government, we should think of who is better with “after corrupted” money. Are they just saving it in Swiss bank? Are they spending it towards local economy? As per my opinion, DMK is better than AIADMK by spending money to create some local jobs in TN, example Sun TV, Stalin’s Sons movie production, Azhagiri’s several theme parks etc. I believe they are ideology driven hence they have some affection towards local Tamil people. Where as AIADMK spending corrupted money to buy lands and real estates. Now they are buying lands out of TN also because inside TN all lands are done.
. At national level, BJP has lot of foreign connection and after corrupted money goes to foreign countries. Congress president herself is from foreign but somehow she tried to stay with Indian politics, even though her family was targeted by several terrorist outfit, she wants her son to enter politics. One more important thing is BJP is part of a big sang pariwar so they need more money to preach Hinduism also. Even though BJP’s one main manifest is to bring back money from Swiss, i believe BJP is more corrupted than Congress as of now.
Secularism: No doubt. Congress is better than BJP. I got your agony of DMK superior’s anti-Hindu stance, he has to do it because his vote bank is mainly minorities. He was bought up and brainwashed to talk like that. Based on my experience, he and his party cadres talks anti Hindu in meeting and go to home and do more pujas to ask sorry. One of a main failure of BJP was, they still included Ram temple and other secularism in manifest, i believe that is equal to suicide. Now youngsters don’t want communalism in their part of life. They want a peace with all communities. I believe the reason is, when we were at (mostly a RC school or Govt School) school 99% students from Hindus and 1% from others, or a Muslim dominated area 99% Muslims and 1% others, But nowadays due to education style changes all the English medium and private schools has equal propitiate number of students from all religion hence religion harmony starts from schooling. So one may not win youth votes based on religion.
Job Creation: I think Congress has some mastermind and experience with Indian society from top to bottom, thanks to their prolong ruling experience. They can make some good plans to create jobs to middle to lower middle class. They are really champion of winning bread for poor, lower middle class to middle class.
Infrastructure: BJP is good at this front, may be because of business people relationship with this party. They can make really good infrastructure improvements within short amount of time.
Great debate. My thoughts are much more in line with Sukumar’s in this debate – sorry Priya. I know that you are always anti-establishment, but I do not think an 80+ Advani with his cohorts that did not have any viable or credible progress policies could have brought the change that you had hoped for. I think the Indian Janta has voted for stability and peace at the center. Manmohan Singh has pulled off a feat that only Nehru has done in the past – come into power after 5 years of being the PM. “Singh is indeed King”. I think BJP totally under estimated him.
I was dreading a Left supported central government which would have taken us into the dark ages. I hope the Left parties truly introspect the verdict given by the people of India. I am not sure whether the Left is fighting for the common man or just against whatever the UPA or NDA stands for (even if it is a good scheme for the common man). Hats off to the people in West Bengal & Kerala for their verdict eventhough I don’t think Mamata is the right alternative in WB. Shashi Tharoor winning from Trivandrum is also a great verdict for Professionals looking to enter politics. I hope he is able to play a larger role in the center.
Lastly, while I am against dynasty politics of any kind, I think Rahul Gandhi has definitely transformed the INC. His gamble in UP definitely paid off & has reinstated INC as a true national party.
Ganesan – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
>> One person/party’s mistake does not condone / approve similar behaviour by the other.
Of course, it doesn’t. I’m not sure why you got the impression that we excuse appalling behavior in Congress, because BJP does the same. Far from it.
Let’s take corruption for instance. Congress let Quattrochi out. Our question is, why didn’t BJP clinch the Bofors case during its reign? If there was so much damning evidence against Quattrochi, why couldn’t they throw him behind bars?
If people think one party (BJP) is an alternative for another (Congress), because it wouldn’t repeat the mistakes of Congress – we should question that assumption & see what BJP did when it had the chance. That’s what we attempted to do.
Joe – Thanks for your comment.
I don’t know why you think I’m not anti-establishment
Rebellious, yes – but not for the sake of rebellion. Rebellion for the sake of my values. For a person with very liberal views (such as supporting gay marriages, pro-choice, tolerance for all religions, church/state separation) – I have some strident right wing views (national security, small govt, Indian nationalism, pro-business).
The current regime has been a total failure, extremely corrupt & inept. It danced to the tunes of all its coalition members. Not to mention the pitiful performance of DMK. Traditionally in India, right-leaning parties have had tighter administration. ADMK for e.g. Jayalalitha ran her status meetings like how a CEO would run a meeting with his/her direct reports.
Which is why I was hoping for a change. But yes, Advani was probably not the best person to bring about change. You need a more likable person, if you want people to vote for the party.
Singh is indeed King! Everyone under-estimated him. I’m delighted that the Left has been kicked out of orbit.Their outdated “Isms” will ruin the country. Tripura then is the only strong-hold of the Left – though its premature to write the Left off completely, from WB or Kerala!
But Mamata Banerjee! ZOMG. I’m pained that she’s been elected. Shashi Tharoor’s win gave us something to cheer for
It was a closely watched constituency. I sent a tweet, thanking the people of Trivandrum, I was so relieved.
For all his bungling, Rahul has impressed me with his stance on RJD & SP. He’s also anti-DMK & pro-ADMK, so I’m beginning to thaw considerably
Subba – Thanks for your comment.
Corruption – This particular govt took corruption to astronomical heights – special thanks to its alliance partner DMK. DMK has no ideology, all they have is rhetoric. Let’s not confuse the 2. So according to you, they can swindle $50 Billion, as long as they create 100 low-paying jobs! Seriously, what kind of logic is that?
What is your basis for claiming that BJP is more corrupt than Congress? We have no particular affinity to any party. But, please provide some proof, for us to agree with you on this.
Secularism – Completely agree. Congress is better in this parameter. Young people care a lot less about religion, caste or language. This is indeed good for harmony. DMK simply mouths out-dated anti-Brahmin, anti-Hindu drivel that it learnt from the Justice Party. Karunanidhi has no time even to update his rhetoric, he’s too busy appeasing his family.
Job Creation – Congress hasn’t delivered, where the middle/above classes are concerned. They’ve done some good things for the rural poor.
Infrastructure – Yes, BJP has the vision & focus to improve this. Congress has no clue how our economy is tied to our infrastructure.
Healthy post poll results debate.
In TN, I wonder how parties like ADMK, MDMK, etc. were campaigning around saying that they would be the champions in solving the crisis of innocent tamilians. I appreciate our voters. Without letting emotions rule, this time they did the right thing by voting for the same government. This is happening for the first time since Jawaharlal Nehru. This way, the government can continue their policies and programs. With people like Jayalalitha saying that Sedhu Samudhiram and some other better programs would be cancelled, who was she working for? It is ridiculous of the TN opposition parties to project themselves as saviours of SL tamils, when UPA is doing its best in solving the SL crisis.
Speaking of Vaiko, I wonder in the last few years, whether this bloke has spoken anything for TamilNadu. No wonder he lost. P Chidambaram…well..the government could not do away without him being at the helm during these tough financial times. Right or wrong with the recounting results, I am happy that he will be back in the ministry. Excellent job by tamilians on teaching a lifetime lesson for the PMK. Also happy that a Dalit leader Thirumavalavan was able to win in Chidambaram, a place filled with Dheetchidhars and vedic society vagayaras.
When a country goes for voting, they consider only their country’s problems and vote for the people who would resolve it. I am still seeing some of my friends with much more insight in the SL issue accusing tamilians and DMK as “tamil ina drohigal”. I feel it is a bit harsh on them.
Priya,
Please watch videos from late 90s. BJP was caught red handed by Tehelka several times. And corruption does not always have to be involved with minting money. They were corrupting the nation’s integrity with the Ram Janma Boomi….
With that said, I hope the war in SL comes to an end this week with the remaining innocent civilians saved. As LTTE would silence their weapons the UN would come forward and resolve the issue peacefully so that there wont be any offshoots of LTTE in the future.
Atleast to me right now, the votes for money does not matter as long as credible people are given the prestigious positions. Apart from Maran, if Kalaignar plans to request minister post for Kanimozhi/Azhagiri, lets see what is going to happen.
Expecting Sashi Tharoor to take up the foreign minister post. Good that in Kerala and West Bengal, a change brewed.
I guess this is what would have happened if the ADMK had a clean sweep. Congress would have joined them and Jaya might have asked Congress to outcast DMK citing that DMK is the reason for global warming and Israel-Palestine conflict.
Priya,
You and Sukumar said you are non-believers. I hope you mentioned that you dont believe in god. Good to hear that. I am a staunch atheist as well and I always welcome rational/free thinking.
In this election, I believe it is a result of more people knowing unitedly as to whom not to vote for more than whom to vote for, which is good in a way.
In TN, the consecutive defeats for the ADMK will encourage that party in the long run by thinking over their policies again with a fresh mind. I dont think you would opt for the third front in TN as well for their policies. I dont want TN to turn into another Kerala.
Speaking of communism, I remember this dialogue from the movie Anbe Sivam in the climax. Kamal, a communist makes Nasser, an industrialist to dance to his tunes for increasing the wage for the workers. Nasser applauds Kamal that he will become a hero amidst the working class and that he can easily go to politics. For which Kamal replies “I am not interested in politics. I am like a tool. For example, after nailing the nail, the HAMMER should be kept aside. Same should be done to a SICKLE after reaping the crops”. At first instance I didnt catch the inner meaning of this dialogue. But it then struck me that the Hammer and Anvil were the symbols of communism. I guess the intention is that though communism as an ideology provides a greater change of perception in employers on employees to treat everyone equal, the parties following communism should not go to rule. Credit goes to Madhan (of Anandha Vikatan Hi Madhan fame) for penning this dialogue.
No wonder people opposed communism with the slogan “Better DEAD than RED”.
Hari – Thanks for your comment.
ADMK – till recently – never approved of partitioning Srilanka to form Tamil Eelam. It was DMK that created the maximum din, by supporting LTTE. And they got the majority of seats. So I wonder if the people have decided wisely. Karunanidhi went on record to say that Prabhakaran was his “friend”. MDMK is of course, the worst of the lot.
It is customary for all parties in India to make noises about the Lankan Tamils. Even Rahul Gandhi did that. The stance of UPA on Lanka was solid & well thought-out, I agree with you on that.
I agree that continuity will help the UPA govt continue its schemes.
Sethu Samudram was not given a clean chit. Unresolved questions on the ROI of the project were raised. It was pointed out that the security of the South-Eastern sea-board will be breached if the bridge was knocked off. Perhaps the UPA govt & the DMK Minister in charge of Shipping, should have focused on answering those questions. Instead of releasing official reports that said “There’s no proof for Ram”. DMK further hurt Hindus by saying “Which Engineering school did Ram go to?”. DMK wanted to demolish the bridge. That contract would have lined their pockets handsomely.
I’m an Atheist, BTW. Ram Sethu has no significance for me. But, I don’t approve of offending the beliefs of people.
I’m surprised that you’re glad with the election of Thol Thirumavalavan. I’m all for Dalits progressing, more power to them. But, Thiruma is as rabid a supporter of LTTE as Vaiko. Chidambaram isn’t filled with Dixits, the DMK govt chooses to target them to fuel its outdated anti-Brahmin rhetoric. Brahmins are a minority in Tamil Nadu. Dixits are an even smaller minority.
I can’t forgive Advani for his involvement in the Babri Masjid demolition. You don’t have to equate it with corruption to make me condemn him for that
But when I talk about corruption, I mean corruption, in its plain, simple, unambiguous terms. All parties are corrupt, the Left I believe, is the least corrupt of all. But, DMK took corruption to galactic proportions. Never before have I heard such large amounts involved! I think our people made a humongous mistake in being insensitive to massive corruption.
Hari – I don’t think Shashi Tharoor (regardless of his credentials) will be given a cabinet post. Maybe a Minister of State? DMK has asked for 7 or 8 Minister posts. Singh will ask them to take a hike. It will be interesting to watch the schism widen, given the fact that Rahul prefers ADMK to DMK.
Jaya should focus on the people, instead of obsessing with Karunanidhi & how to defeat him. It is this obsession that led her to give such a wide berth to PMK, MDMK & the Left – with disastrous consequences for her.
Votes for Money shows how pervasive corruption is in DMK. Do you think they’ll spend the money, if they don’t expect to get 100 X back, through corrupt means?
My problem is, there seems to be no alternatives for people. India will progress only when real issues are debated, when the govt stops obsessing ONLY about the poor & the lower strata doesn’t vote for money & freebies. As of now, it seems to be a pipe dream.
Regarding your question, I’m an Atheist & Sukumar is an Agnostic.
Interesting discussion Priya….
I was a bit disappointed with the Central result ,but PMK and MDMK losing out kicked out the dissppointment…One thing good about this election is that it gave a reality check to all the State parties…I sincerly feel that all these parties are reducing the stablity of a popular goverment but making unwanted demands…I am scared to think of the demands that r going to be made by TMC and DMK….I hope they dont take us back by 10 years…
Good things about this election :
1.Slap to Prakash Karat and a reality check for Left
2.Slap to Mayawati.
3.Complete wash out of PMK and MDMK.
4.Power reduction of 3rd ,4th fronts…thank god we will not have any more 5 th ,6th and seventh fronts.
Bad things about this election
1.DMK winning…so corruption is going to lead to absolute corruption.
2.TMC winning so many seats ..hope there are no more Singur’s and Nandigrams
3.BJP’s lack of second rung of leadership.
5.
Bad things about this elections
Priya interesting read…..
I loved the way of your discussion…
I did witness the same sort for discussion with my parents after the election,one supporting for one party and describing their achievements and the other supporting for the opposition party…I tend to be neutral….
@PriyaRaju, I didn’t provide any numbers to job created by corrupted politicians, it is all arbitrary. Based on unofficial reports, SunTV itself created 20,000 jobs in Chennai alone. In Madurai, one Theme park employed 500 people, they have 4 theme park in South TN. In South TN we take any job creation projects even 10 jobs makes difference for us. One movie production gives 1000 jobs directly or indirectly. Stalin’s son takes 3 movies per year so 3000 jobs.
BJP and corruption, first thing comes to my mind is Tehelka Scandal. One more is Barak Anti-Missile Scam. All are listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fernandes
Karthik – Thanks for your comment.
With every passing day, I feel better about the results in the center. RJD & SP are out. DMK won’t get many cabinet posts. Opportunist, un-trustworthy Deve Gowda is “willing” to support UPA. How nice of him
The last time he supported someone (BJP in Karnataka), he stabbed them in the back. I don’t think he should wait for any calls from Dr Singh 
But yes, I’m glad that MDMK lost face. PMK – I don’t hate them as much as I hate DMK or JDS. I’m also glad that the 3rd & 4th fronts, that made a mockery of democracy, got a stinging slap on their faces.
TMC – I thought Madam Banerjee was finished after the Nano debacle. I remember people who were expecting jobs in the Tata plant, wailing & beating their chests, asking Mamata if she’ll hire them. Sigh…And here she is, basking in her victory.
DMK – Where do I start, How do I end – my litany of complaints. Let’s hope some other party gets it act together, if only to throw DMK a knock-out punch in the Assembly elections.
Annapoorani – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
Its always better to be neutral – its easier to support the accomplishments of other parties & to condemn the callous acts of your own. Both I & Sukumar are neutral too – There are very few parties worth supporting in India, any way
We just detest some parties more than others. We admire a handful of leaders regardless of their party affiliations, if they have something positive to offer.
Subba – Thanks for the data. My question is, will creating some jobs – even 10,000 jobs – justify mis-appropriating $10 Billion from the government? Sun TV isn’t distributing the money like Robin Hood. The Marans run a business which rakes in money hand-over-fist.
Please see my response to Hari (above). Yes, most politicians are corrupt. But, Indians are making a mistake of galactic proportions if they ignore the scale of the corruption by DMK.
Yes…i agree, there is no justification for corruption but we have to adjust with the existing system. My point is we should not fight to stop corruption because now it become a part of culture. We can at least select someone who is willing to spent (some) to local people. I know it is very hard to accept but that is pragmatic for now. Marans runs the business by providing some jobs is the point, where as JJ and co buying real estate is waste of money and no job creation.
Subba – I see your point & I think most Indians have accepted corruption in their daily lives. Who am I kidding, most Indians are corrupt too.
But I’d rather swallow a dagger dipped in poison
I’d rather choose someone who’s cleaner, than a corrupt fat cat that will ruin the moral fiber of the country even further.
A short comment. Singh did a good job and played with cool with hands. Ganghis are getting the accolade. BJP di dnot have any real issues, they tried to bring up Setu issue which failed to provoke any real sentiments among people. People are tired of international Talibanism and they got a feel for this craziness through Ramasena and Orissa. That sealed BJP’s fate. Next chapter.
emmarcee – Thanks for your comment.
I think UPA was hobbled by its rainbow coalition. They could have done a better job, had they been stronger. But yes, people seem to like Dr Singh.
You’re absolutely right – BJP was dumb enough to believe that Ram Janma Bhoomi & Ram Sethu were real hot-button issues for the people.
BJP gave itself bad publicity, by being photographed with Muthalik the mad-man behind the pub attacks. If they won’t summarily denounce raving lunatics, by association we have to assume that they’re equally mad. BJP & its coterie should understand that Indians aren’t easily divided by fundamentalism. Someone should tell them – “Its the economy, stupid!”. In the end, religion don’t put food on the table.
Excellent post, Priya!
As you have said, BJP snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Advani should have thought of better ways of campainging for his party than calling Mr. Singh a weak PM and challenging him to a live debate. That was totally uncalled for.
Like many, I’m too surprised by the emphatic victory of DMK. Do people think at all before casting their vote?
Nice discussion. Good to read.
My two cents…
//I also love the Arogya Sree idea – Healthcare, Education – these should be free for all, at least at a basic level.
I do agree that Healthcare & Education should be free for all. But I dont agree with you on the “Arogya Sree” idea. I know of atleast 10 cases in which doctors from private hospitals conducted Bi-pass surgery and other major operations on poor people even though they did not need it just because the govt. is paying the money. According to an estimate, private hospitals along with congress leaders have earned hundreds of crores of money in the pretext of Aarogya Sree and only 1% of the money is properly getting utilised. Even otherwise also, there is no point in spending hundereds of crores of money on these kind of policies when more dangerous diseases which require a lot less money are yet to be cured.
//Shashi Tharoor’s win gave us something to cheer for.
Oh Yes!!! So has JP’s win from Kukatpally (MLA)….:-)…I hope you have heard about him. In case you haven’t, Please watch this. You can find some more videos on him in Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7YrxzX3Qxw&feature=related
But I wish Loksatta had won more seats in A.P.
.
Overall, even though I prefer NDA, I dont mind ‘a stable Congress govt under Dr. MMS’
Thanks.
–Srinivas
Balaji – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
Yes, I felt BJP failed Indians. What’s the use of meaningless mud-slinging, when there are real issues that bother people? How strong is someone who sobs when Kar Sevaks demolish a mosque? Funny guy, Advani. Glass houses, stones etc.
DMK – I spoke to a few people to understand who they would vote for, what their issues are etc. Some of the Naidu voters, who form the Core Base for DMK, were disillusioned. 1 of them planned to abstain from voting, since she couldn’t bear voting for any other party – but thought that DMK had let her down so much that they didn’t deserve her vote. Another one planned to vote for Vijayakanth.
Clandestinely, money was distributed for votes for card-carrying DMK members. So between that, Vote Splitting by DMDK & the shrinking core base for ADMK – DMK emerged a clear winner.
Sigh…
Srinivas – Thanks for your comment.
Arogya Sree – Its always good to hear the other perspective – in this case, where a program went wrong. But if you quote figures – “only 1% is getting properly utilized” – please state your source or provide a link. Conceptually, its a good program. Any program – even a good one – needs checks & balances. So, abuse by some parties doesn’t summarily invalidate the program.
I’ve been reading up on Arogya Sri. Some people feel it will be better to spend that money in modernizing our General Hospitals. You think that money is better spent on diseases like Cholera, Hepatitis or Typhoid (if I’m not mistaken). I’m not sure I completely agree or disagree with either of that. It doesn’t have to be a 1 or a 0.
So far, no one has taken Cancer, Kidney Failure or Heart Problems in the poor seriously. That kind of attention is good. Having said that, hygiene plays a large part in spreading deadly diseases of the kind you mention. Our govts already spend money & energy in combatting communicable diseases. Perhaps they can re-double their efforts in that front.
Lok Satta – Oh yes, of course we’ve heard about Dr JP & have high regards for him. In our pre-occupation with the Parliament, we forgot to mention the MLA from Kukatpally. Lok Satta is still a newbie, it will take some more time for them to capture the mind-share of the people. I’m sure they’ll win more seats in the next election.
Completely agree with this statement of yours – “I don’t mind a stable Congress govt under Dr. MMS”.
Very interesting debate…
Perspective from AP:
I personally know of people who have benefitted from Arogya sree and hence do see its use. As you replied for the above comment, there need to be additional checks and balances for it to work well. Though I dont support the NREGA, (I feel the funds could be better utilized in increasing the skills of people, providing vocational training and such activities), it has helped the government. By populist measures like loan-waivers (again I know of people who though having sufficient money took loans just because the loans will be waived) the gained the critical support. There is rampant corruption in all the government services. With all the above programs, YSR got the critical support of the people. And there were news parties in the fray this time. The difference between the percentages of votes polled to Congress and TDP alliance was just above 1% with the new parties prp getting 15% and Loksatta getting 2% share. So though congress has pandered to enough sections to become the single largest party, there is lot to be improved. I would have voted for the TDP if not for LSP. I sincerely hope that LSP becomes a commendable force in the state for the next elections by going into the people, explaining their policies and work to the people.
For Parliament:
I think the BJP mismanaged its campaign. I think the Varun Gandhi episode has made many people reconsider their decision of supporting the BJP. And I think the victories in UP and AP have helped a lot in UPA coming to power. Yes I feel so bad that people have forgotten the string of terrorist attacks that have happened in the country by voting UPA to power again, but people didnt have much choice. The BJP was never clear on what change it would bring except criticizing MMS being weak and all and hence it had to bear the results.
I think this might be good decision overall but a lot has to change- we should not be satisfied with this and have to aspire for better things.
I think Loksatta has very good ideas and will be a great thing if it can get itself elected with a majority next time.
Reading the agenda itself has made me feel like its going to be Utopia(ok atleast compared to current situation).
http://www.loksatta.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84&Itemid=63 read it if interested.
The election was really shock for me.. But more shocking is this post .. i still could not believe Priya could have argued in this angle
..
Btw, when i started reading the comments, i could not surprise myself on the following lines..
/** But Sonia to her credit, allowed Mr Singh much more freedom than Sangh Pariwaar had given BJP coalation. **/
THe very statement itself has exposed many things.. First of all, vamsi agreed, that Manmohan singh was controlled by Sonia (alias antonio maino), and that he did only what she allowed.. Is this not a greatest insult to the dignity of a nation, that a lady of italian origin who did not apply for indian citizenship even after 16 years of her marriage, is controlling the highest office of our country?
And who is this sonia gandhi? And what do we know about her, apart from that she is the wife of Rajiv Gandhi?
We all are democratic loving people, and we all believe, that in a democracy, no one people should control everything… But, how come we, the eucated people, can support a dynasty rule, which extends for the past 60 years..
The biggest fraud of ever had happened in this election.. There were heavy rigging happened all over india, and the results doesnt seem to be normal, and its highly manipulated. I personally had analysed in my own constituency.
And the world had seen how chidambaram, T.R. Baalu had won this election, and how Vai.Ko had lost.
I believe, If we further analyse the poll results, we can find out more details of such rigging..
One thing i dont know is that while TDP could win 105 MLA seats, he could win only 9 MP seats.. i am really surprised, whether AP people are intelligent enough to caste vote differently for assembly and parliament.
Senthil – Thanks for your comment.
I was smiling when I read it
My views are based purely on the issue & I try to be as unbiased & rational as possible.
As I explained to Joe Korah (above), I have some very liberal views – Gay Marriages, Religious Tolerance, Atheism, Freedom of Expression, Pro-choice etc. But, I also have some strong right wing views – Work Ethics, Death Penalty, Capitalism, Small Govt, Anti-Terror etc.
Everyone knows Sonia controlled Dr Singh, but if she had been Indian – would it have made it any better? Her ethnicity doesn’t bother me. Its what is called a “Red Herring” – inconsequential distraction. She’s an Indian now. We don’t like dynasty rule, but BJP didn’t convince people that they were a credible alternative.
And seriously, BJP should work on shaking off its Hindu Fundamentalist image, stop dallying with nut-cases like Muthalik (Shriram Sene) & Varun Gandhi. That’s not very dignified for this nation either.
/** Everyone knows Sonia controlled Dr Singh, but if she had been Indian – would it have made it any better? Her ethnicity doesn’t bother me
**/
Priya.. even if she were to be an indian, then its a big cause to worry.. However, she being a foreigner, has a lot to do with NOT just the dignity of India, but at the security and independance. If she were an indian, we could have known her past, as we know the past of Mayawati, Jayalalitha (even if they are very worst). And if she were an indian, all her relatives would be in india, and the soul of her would be with india.
And more over, this issue is not about ethnicity.. rather there is a larger perspective..
A year back, a group of NRIs in Newyork, held a protest demonstration against Sonia Gandhi, and publishing a full page NYtimes article on her controversial background. The advertisement can be seen here..
http://gandhiheritage.org/images/pdfs/nytimesad.pdf
The important accusations raised against her are:
1. Her Husband Rajiv received payments from KGB and had secret swiss account of 2 billion dollars.
2. Rahul Gandhi was detained at Boston airport by FBI in 2001 for possessing large unaccounted cash. (If not for Vajpayee, he would have been exposed long back)
3. She was a antique smuggler.
4. She did not complete any degree.. rather she had a short english course at cambridge tutorial, which she is now claiming as a degree from cambridge university.
There are much more allegations..
And the congress party on her behalf had filed a 100 million law suits, but it was quashed by the Supreme Court.
http://gandhiheritage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=82&Itemid=31
I agree, that those advertisement was given by some hindutva people, and supported by subramanya swamy.. but the fact that the case is still pending in india, and also silence of the sonia family over the NY times advertisement, has more or less confirmed the allegations against her.
And my question is that is this the person that most of our intellectuals supporting? And do you still feel, there is no issue in her foreign origin, and there is no issue in her calling shots?
If so, then why should we have a process called democracy? we can crown her as the unquestioned queen of india and write off the whole of india to the nehru family, and declar rahul as the princess in waiting.. what’s the use of democracy?
/** BJP should work on shaking off its Hindu Fundamentalist image **/
Priya.. you see.. now i am no more apologetic about demanding india to be a Hindu Country.. Just because, India can be secular as long as it is hindu majority, and india is secular because hindus are secular. And hence, there is no harm in declaring india as a Hindu nation.
Also, all religions have a place in a Hindu India (just like hindu nepal had place for christianity and Islam), while none of the christian and muslim countries had place for other religions. Do vatican allow a hindu temple be constructed there, while even the holiest places of india had a church in its city?
So, BJP need not be apologetic about its hindu orientation..
I know, many will hesitate with even the idea of a hindu india.. but i am just putting my points here..
Please read M.J. Akbar’s article below.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/BJP-Left-face-existential-dilemma/articleshow/4540877.cms
From his quote…
“The BJP might want to consider a fundamental fact about our country. India is not a secular nation because Indian Muslims want it to be secular. India is a secular nation because Indian Hindus want it to be secular. ”
Senthil – Why do you want to dredge up Jayalalitha’s past? We have a bigamist as our Chief Minister! No one talks about that. I’ve heard raunchy stories about many male politicians. Double standards for men & women? IMHO, their personal lives are unimportant – when compared to what they do in the public sphere.
Now, about your accusations on Sonia: Shibu Soren was accused of murder. 100+ MPs have a criminal record. But hey, that’s no problem. Because they are Indian. And Sonia didn’t complete her degree – Gee, what a terrible crime! Must be because she’s Italian, eh, Senthil?
Taking the complaint on Rahul Gandhi at face value: Why did Vajpayee help Rahul Gandhi? There’s nothing heroic in protecting someone, when they were detained by FBI on suspicion. Stating that it was done to “preserve India’s dignity” is unconvincing. I would say its a dereliction of duty on Vajpayee’s part, by giving preferential treatment to someone.
Sonia, an Antique Smuggler? Seems like BS to me. In the Galapagos Islands, even taking a pebble as a souvenir is a crime. I’ve heard about travelers buying an antique for themselves or their friend, knowing fully well its wrong. That doesn’t make them habitual smugglers – I’m not condoning it, hope you understand what I mean. And BJP has Mayaben Kodnani, accused of participating in the Godra riots. And Sonia did what, steal a Scarab from Egypt by wrapping it in her shawl?
You know what, if the Right Wing wants to be taken seriously, they should stop bull-shitting people. And I say this earnestly, in the interest of having a credible alternative for Congress. This is precisely what we are saying in this post. Indians grin & bear the offenses of Mulayam, Lalu, Azhagiri & Mayawati. Compared to them, Rahul looks as resplendent as Sir Lancelot. And Sonia, with her dedication to bring her husband’s killers to their ghastly end, like the legendary Kannagi. I’m no fan of Sonia, but all the complaints ranted on by the Hindutva group seem pitiful to me.
People are more intelligent & discerning than BJP gives them credit for. People have seen worse, far worse in their very Indian politicians. So, mud-slinging doesn’t work in India. There are real issues to talk about, why dredge up dirt that no one cares about? BJP risks alienating itself from Indians, if it spends all its time in beating up Sonia for being Italian – instead of questioning her on Bofors.
Why do “intellectuals” support Sonia? They don’t. They support Congress. Because they don’t like BJP. “Intellectuals” hate dynasty rule. They think Rahul Gandhi is a pleasant, not too smart man, riding on mommy’s sari hems. But, who’s the alternative?
BJP? BJP is more interested in muck-raking and taunting minorities – than in talking about cleaner administration, tighter controls & better economy. The “intellectuals” want to be sure that all people – including women & minorities – can live peacefully. They are not getting those good vibes from the BJP.
If you can’t understand that Senthil – you haven’t understood the post at all. I request you not to post any more rants & raves on Sonia Gandhi. We are tired of hearing that. We’d rather talk about real problems.
Senthil – Yes, I also heard of cases where DMK paid people to vote for them. DMK is intent on taking us to the dark ages.
Senthil – No one needs to apologize for “Hindu Orientation” or “Muslim Orientation”. But if it becomes “Militant Orientation”, they have a lot to explain. Let’s not trivialize the issue. If you want Hinduism to be the state religion, take the democratic path in getting it done. There’s no use shouting yourself hoarse in the blogosphere. I loathe the idea of any country having a state religion, but that’s besides the point. I support your right in voicing your opinion.
I’m proud of India’s tolerance for all religions. But, BJP is not the face of the Hindu majority. People do not care for BJP’s brand of militant Hinduism. They want to be happy & relaxed when they practice their religion. They don’t want to spend their lives seething about why India should be a Hindu country. Most people love it when they go to a Church/Mosque with their Muslim/Christian friends. They want religion to be a positive, re-affirming experience. Not a hate-filled one, that makes practicing religion an onerous task.
Stating that Christian nations are not secular – Who are you bull-shitting? India isn’t a Hindu Nation by law, but has a Hindu Majority. You should compare it with Developed Nations, most of whom have a Christian majority, but are not Christian nations. Comparing India’s admirable tolerance with Vatican, a small city & the seat of Roman Catholicism is ridiculous. Compare India’s tolerance with UK, US, Canada or France.
And you wonder why we don’t take your claims seriously? Stop twisting data in a laughable manner to suit your foregone conclusions.
Again: This post is about the Elections & why BJP failed. Please stick to the point. You’ve made your views on Hinduism felt many times before, so please move on. We have no problem with Right/Left Wing/Centrist, Hindu/Muslim/Sikh parties – only with Extreme Fringe parties that are obsessed with their ideology & are disconnected with the issues of the people they want to rule. BJP should talk more about governance, less about Religious Extremism, if it wants to win our confidence. Hope I made my stance clear.
Ananth – Thanks for your comment.
Thanks for your perspective on Arogya Sree. There’s a lot to be done in India for the poor & every little bit helps.
Regarding NREGA, I think its a good scheme that won’t uproot rural people from their traditional setting. Because of the collapse of agriculture, many rural poor move to the cities – resulting in over-crowding & dismal living conditions for them. I agree that Vocational Training is a good idea, but NREGA impresses me simply because it doesn’t lay emphasis on up-skilling. Its a counter-intuitive scheme in that regard. A lot of work that needs to be done – requires unskilled or semi-skilled people. So, why train people in a specific skill, which may box-in their employability?
I’m not a fan of freebies, so the loan waivers make me uneasy. Its our tax money that’s squandered callously.
Thanks for the link on Lok Satta. LS is a much respected party. I hope they win more seats in the next election. But on the whole, when compared to DMK – both CBN & YSR seem to have done good things for Andhra Pradesh. Amidst a host of bad things, I’m sure – nevertheless, the situation in AP seems better than the pitiable plight of TN.
Parliament: Yes, Varun Gandhi won Philibit, but BJP paid dearly for that victory. But what was the damage inflicted by Varun, single-handedly? Opinion will be divided on that. People might have thought his behavior was in line with BJP’s Militant Hinduism. The choice of Advani was probably not well conceived, either. To many, he’ll always be the leader behind the Babri Masjid demolition. What Varun did pales before that.
All in all, BJP bungled the campaign – I agree with you. There was no campaign, truth be told. Just some bleating about Ram Janma Bhoomi, when the price of essential commodities like wheat, rice & vegetables have gone through the roof, when affordable housing in cities is a big problem for the lower strata & the economy is on a tailspin.
Yes, BJP has the reputation of being hard-nosed on terror. Perhaps they would have beefed up the country’s security. While I share that opinion with you, I can’t back it with data. UPA should certainly pay more attention to Homeland Security, at least this time.
Priya.. lets see who is ranting here..
* Vajpayee letting helping rahul is a different issue, and he should be held accountable for it. But the point is that Rahul was detained with Unaccounted cash by FBI, flouting all US norms. There are many implications..
1. he, being certified by you as gentleman, has violeted the US law.
2. The cash that he possesed was indeed big amount, that was NOT accounted for.
And there is a even larger question.. that is he the future of india, as projected by intellectuals and ELMs?
* Antiques smuggling: I did not understand, what egypt and Galapagos Islands has to do with.. the accusation is that she has been involved in the business of smuggling antiques from India.. and that DOESNT mean, that she has jump around the temple compound wall, get hold of the statue, cover it with her salwar and run away.. the point is that she has made a lot of money by being an agent for those antique smugglers..
This accusation has been publicly made by Jayalalitha, some years ago.. and why isnt there no reaction from sonia? (Any self respecting persons would not remain silent.. and if i make such allegations against priya raju, she would have hunted me in my house the next day
)
And the same accusation now made in Newyork, and advertised in Newyork times. And the court there rejected the so called hallow suits filed by her?
Done you see anything fishy out of it? And is it not a crime? And for the n th time i am asking.. should we allow her to be super PM of india?
And finally, its Unfair of you to brand the opponents as ranting or laughable, if their arguments doesnt suit you.. i wish you would stick to points and facts, instead of ridiculing me..
/** Stating that Christian nations are not secular – Who are you bull-shitting? **/
see.. i am not talking about present (pseudo) secular india… i was talking about a hindu india, which i can compare only with a christian or muslim or buddhist country.. my point is that a typical christian nation and muslim nation will not allow other religions in the country. But a hindu nation, even though the state religion is Hinduism, is inclusive of all religions..
This is relevant to this post, because secularism is discussed as one of the topic for which congress is credited, and BJP is accused..
/** BJP should talk more about governance, less about Religious Extremism, if it wants to win our confidence. **/
This is baseless accusation from you.. please see the BJP manifesto..
http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/content/view/839/421/
In the last elections, they talked only about governance, security and development.. because, the ELM played the villain, and did not project it, you cannot spew venom on BJP like this..
The english language media (ELMs) had successfully distorted their BJP campaign, and they were completely biased towards BJP.. (again, you cannot accuse BJP for this.. the ELMs are all owned by Foreign institutions, and they do only what their owners tell )
BJP had raised to centre stage only on their hindutva ideology.. and later, they went on diluting their ideology towards development agenda.. and even then, they did not get the support of the so called intellectuals, nor the media.. and more sadly, they lost the trust of the hindu people, who believed that BJP will construct a RAM temple in ayodhya..
On NREGA:
————-
Most of you are urban people, who dont know the ground situation in the rural india.. since i am witnessing the negative effect of this scheme, i am writing this.
In short, the NREGA has collapsed the social balance in the rural area.. Normally, the farmers would get the labours at the rate of 30 rs per day (7Am to 2PM) in the normal season.. During rainy season, the labour charge will go up to Rs.50 per day.. Even then, there is a large scarcity of labours for the agricultural work.
When the NREGA scheme came, the labours went to that scheme, for two reasons..
1. There is no one to enforce work, and hence they can get the wages even without doing any work.
2. The wages is higher at NREGA, at Rs. 80 per day.
The negative effect it had on the society is multi-fold..
1. First it increased the labour scarcity, which added stress to farmers and other rural industries.
2. It collapsed the work ethics, that made the quality of labours came down drastically.
The society, which is already in its collapse, is facing the further stress.. and the social harmony is what that is going to be affected in the long run..
Senthil – As usual, a glut of comments from you. You’re back in form.
If you don’t understand my comment on Egypt/Galapagos & smuggling, read it again. It is self explanatory & evident. If you still don’t understand it, it only means 1 thing: You’re so consumed by your views & line of thinking, that you’re unable to grasp anything from a different track (whether that track disagrees with you or not!). That’s solely your problem, not mine. I’ll let the other readers decide who’s ranting & who isn’t.
I’m glad you agree what Vajpayee did was wrong. But, you didn’t understand my point about Rahul. Same reason as above, I suspect.
In case you didn’t read the post in full, please check the 1st line of the post. We’ve read the manifesto of all the parties. Do you seriously think the bulk of Indians will read the manifesto? BJP should have spoken again & again & again in their public meetings about governance, inflation, security & good policies that will help the country. They shouldn’t have tried to make Ram Janma Bhoomi & Sethu Samudram election issues, when the economy is in tatters. They wouldn’t have made this blunder, if Pramod Mahajan had been alive – This is a point Sukumar made.
I do agree that the most of the Media dislikes BJP. I wouldn’t blame them completely for that, but that’s a different point. What prevents BJP from starting a Right Wing TV Channel & Newspaper? In the US, “Fox News” is a Right Wing channel & they counteract the mostly liberal media. BJP should start a TV channel. It would be very helpful for the people, to hear both sides of a perspective. Right now, they only know what the media channels choose to say.
Whether BJP will get the support of the “intellectuals” if they do this – I can’t say. But, the “intellectuals” are a minority, so no big damage done!
Ancient Hindu India is not relevant to this post! This post is about current day, in your words “pseudo secular” India, the period we live in, since Election 2009 belongs to the modern era. So, yester-year India is irrelevant to this post. Please stick to the point discussed in this post.
Senthil – Interesting take on NREGA.
Could you please explain this point: “There is no one to enforce work, and hence they can get the wages even without doing any work”.
So, people get paid without doing any work?! Can you please point to a link, so that this urban woman can understand?
Regarding the wages, Rs 30 per day or even Rs 50 a day does seem very, very low to me. People will naturally gravitate towards work that pays them better. Why are people paid such low wages in the farming sector? Are the returns from farming so low? Please let us know your thoughts.
For e.g., the pay for a maid in my locality is Rs 5000 a month, for 8 hours of services. If they work on Sundays, they’ll make an additional Rs 1000. That’s nearly Rs 200 per day. I agree that I live in an affluent section of Chennai & that the cost of living in a major metro is considerably higher than in a village. But still, the disparity is mind-boggling.
Thanks for your comment Priya.
After you said that NREGA is a good scheme I tried to do a little research into it.
I was pleasantly surprised to see NREGA being praised and most of all AP having the best implementation.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/09/08/stories/2008090856271000.htm
http://59.92.116.99/eldoc1/h40a/22jan08h1.pdf
After reading that I decided to see what type of works are being done under NREGA. I was happy to see that all the information is available online freely till the village level at http://nrega.ap.gov.in/Nregs/FrontServlet?requestType=Work_engRH&actionVal=view&year=2009-2010.
I checked the works going on in my village. The work that was being done was water conservation (earthern bundings, mini percolation tanks) , land development (levelling the land and preparation), horticulture plantation, single layer metal road and check walls. Good to see that a little development is happening in the village though very basic. When I go home this time will check how much quality it has. It is heartening to note that this scheme is implemented with very little corruption in AP because of decoupling of works and payments. To quote from the above article.
Though the work done is very basic, I think after the basics are in place slowly they will think of skill development and that would really help them. Looks like NREGA has a lot of potential. Hope it will create permanent and useful assets rather than temporary things ..
Thanks for letting me know about this.
Priya.. my questions still remains unanswered.. let it be rants or glut of comments.. i will move on..
/** I do agree that the most of the Media dislikes BJP. I wouldn’t blame them completely for that, but that’s a different point. **/
Its not media dislikes BJP.. but the media, being a front end of congress.. and they are the first one to be held accountable..
Here, most of the people, comment under the following assumptions..
* That media is something noble
* whatever appears in media, its true.
But the truth is NOT that..
* Media is a business owned by a certain people/company
* Media projects/manipulates news, as per the instruction from its owners.
How a media should be?
* It should be impartial in delivering news
* It should only report news as it is, and not twist or manipulate it.
* Media should be nationalistic.
And everyone knows, how the present media is..
Now my questions are below..
1. Varun Gandhis speech might have created hatred in few thousand people who heard him.. But, the media hyped it up, and created hatred for varun through out india.. More than varun, the medias has to be booked for spreading hatred on a large scale..
2. The BJP’s election campaign and manifesto has been centered around development, good governance and security. Their manifesto too is full of that, and the ram temple is mentioned in only one line.
The media ignored all others, and took that one line, and blowed it out of proportion..
Now how can the BJP be accused of not focussing on governance, because media did not highlight it? Is it fault of BJP or the fault of the media to be extremely partial?
The people has to understand the current situation where almost all the English media has a share of foreign companies. Like TImes now being owned by coleman and bros, and very recently Hindu becoming Chindu (The chinese people’s daily)
..
And when we switch on the TV, we are hearing those biased media, and when we read the newspapers, we are again reading the biased one.
Its a great danger, that some vested interests had occupied the entire media space, and manipulating public opinion..
The right wing cannot be accused of NOT owning a media, because,
* The media has a moral ethics in reporting news, which is not followed by the ELM’s.
* The amount of foreign money could not be matched by the right wingers.
In such a perspective, whatever negative comments made on BJP is because of ELM’s influence, and needs to be introspected..
/** “There is no one to enforce work, and hence they can get the wages even without doing any work”. **/
Priya.. i dont say, that all people get wages without working.. my point is that since there is no one to enforce (due to lack of ownership of the work), the productivity is not given importance. However, this NREGA scheme has been utilised in many panchayats, effectively.. it depends on the wisdom of the panchayat presidents..
one of my relative is working under the NREGA scheme, and the information i got is through her..
But on the broader level, this NREGA is fundamentally flawed.. because, this doesnt take other constituents of the society in to consideration, like farmers, rural industries etc.. Labourers are NOT the only constituent of the society.. and JOBS cannot be created from sky artificially..
WHen the farmers themselves are suffering from non-availability of the labourers, its unfair of the government to introduce an artificial scheme, and divert the labourers away from a productive work..
Rather, they could have used these amount, in providing other basic amenities, like medical insurance for the labourers, housing, water facilities, etc.
Jobs are generated only out of creating business / industrial / agricultural opportunities..
/** Why are people paid such low wages in the farming sector? Are the returns from farming so low? Please let us know your thoughts. **/
Priya.. we are cultivating rice in 50 cents, and when i calculated the expense, i found that we are in loss..
Total expenditure comes around 5500 rs for cultivating rice in 50 cents.. and we are expecting 6-8 bags (75 kg jute bag) of produce next month.. and one bag costs around 600 – 700 rs. Even considering 8 bags, the income comes around 5600 rs.. After three months, nothing remains.. while its not a big matter for us, those full time farmers would be in a difficult position.. Even if it is done on a large scale, the net returns is always low, when compared with the amount of hard work put in to it..
I made a balance sheet of the cash crop (sugarcane) undertaken by my uncle..
For 1 acre, the expenditure comes around 25k to 30k, and the produce would be around 60 tonne on an average.
Per tonne, the net amount (after cutting wages) comes around 900 rs . (60 * 900 = 54000 rs / acre )
So the income per acre is around 25k-30k for sugarcane.. (and this 900 rs is only recent price.. earlier, it was around 550 rs net)
on an average, a farmer family with 5 acres, could earn up to 2-3 lakh per year provided good water facilities and market for the produce exists..
when the wages raise, agriculture becomes unfeasible..
I hope, everyone is aware of how Chidambaram and T.R. Baalu won this election..
In sivaganga constituency, Rajakannappan of ADMK was initially announced as winning by 7000 votes.. But suddenly, chidambaram entered in to the scene, ordered for recounting of votes, and then he was declared as winner.. the opposition protested initially, but something happened behind the scene, and they were silenced..
In Vaiko’s constituency, there were 22000 votes more than the number of polled ones.. and vaiko was declared as lost..
In Trichy constituency, through a known source, i heard that the results were withheld (similar to sivaganga), but lalitha kumaramangalam boldly intervened and got the certificate for the winning ADMK candidate.. if not for her, the sivaganga episode might have happened here..
I believe, in NDA’s rule such thing did not happen, and they were genuine in conducting elections free and fair, even if it cost their own (inspite of strong pro-incumbency in 2004)..
Tampering of EVM’s
There is a strong case to believe, that EVMs has been hacked to manipulate the result. While its not done in all 545 seats, it could have been done in atleast 50 constituency, and more in tamilnadu..
This was echoed by subramanya swamy, well before the elections in his press release.. and the results had shown he is most probably true..
http://janataparty.org/pressdetail.asp?rowid=58
04.04.2009
PRESS RELEASE
The Congress Party President Ms.Sonia Gandhi seeing the imminent collapse of the UPA has set-up a seven member ‘crisis management’ team of foreigners based in a five star hotel in Delhi. This is a serious threat India’s national security.
While the names of all seven members are available with me, I am gathering the detailed antecedents of these dirty seven. The first member identified for me is an obscure UK-based journalist called Mr.David Green who has written for London tabloids on “snack foods”. He was easy to identify because he is often seen-by SPG at the residence of Ms.Sonia Gandhi reading secret files being made available to her by some Ministers and bureaucrats. Indian intelligence is being blocked by the Home Minister P.Chidambaram from investigating whether Ms.Green is an operative for British Intelligence, the MI-6.
One of the tasks assigned to this nefarious team is how to doctor the electronic voting machines in about 50 constituencies by using dual passwords technique and by hacking via wireless cyber techniques.
(SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY)
I dont think we indians give much importance to elections and we mostly discuss politics for timepass and to make talk. Worst of all, the educated folks like us talk a lot in blogs and gatherings about politics but dont even bother to cast our vote. Apart from the bored people who work on computers nobody ever analyses about society’s problems much and they just vote based on the facts that come to their mind at that point.
India has reached such a great level in corruption that people are not able to see that wat they do is wrong. A municipal councilor spends lakhs for his election , obviously a MLA or MP cant be expected to be a reformer. Unless it becomes a scandal, corruption cannot become an issue for a long long time to come. DMK and Congress are corrupt to the core compared to other parties, but they are atleast able to focus on issues of the society better. I am really happy that the communal parties(BSP,BJP) and opportunists(PMK,RJD,Left) lost for good.
Ultimately we can only choose the better devil
Ananth – Thanks for the additional info on NREGA. I was also impressed to see the amount of info available on NREGA. So, YSR takes rural development very seriously. Good for him! How is it Andhra generates good CMs & neighboring TN can’t? Granted, Jayalalitha starts good programs when she’s in power, but still!
I’m so glad to know about the mode of payment & how there is almost no corruption – probably because, payment & work are segregated.
We should thank you for digging up so much info on NREGA. Yes, work does seem basic – but now that YSR will continue in power, we can hope for bigger & better stuff from Congress in AP.
Senthil – I don’t think the media is the mouth-piece of Congress. You seem to think that this is a unique phenomenon in India, but it happens all over the world. Most of the people in the Media/Entertainment Industry are progressive & liberal. It is but natural that they dislike the right wing, which stands for everything they think is wrong.
You underestimate the readers of this blog. Most of them are mature people who refer various sources of information, before coming to a conclusion. You may disagree with their opinion, but that doesn’t automatically make them naive & ill-informed.
I find your remark on Varun funny. Why did he make the speech? Of course, the media had a field day. You want the Media to keep quiet when a BJP candidate shoots him/herself in the foot? What kind of logic is that? Would you take this stance if Sonia had made a derogatory speech, filled with hate for Hindus? Or if a Muslim candidate had slammed Kashmiri Pundits? End of this discussion, I think.
I see that you don’t want a solution – which would be right wing media – but you’re satisfied with slamming vested interests/leanings in Media. This is another favorite topic of yours. I have nothing more to say.
Senthil – Yes, its possible that the NREGA scheme needs more focus & accountability. If administered well, NREGA can be a pretty decent program.
The govt tries to help the lowest strata of the society – those that are in abject poverty. Its their biggest vote bank, if we want to look at it pragmatically. But that’s besides the point. As long as much needed work is done thru NREGA – please look at Ananth’s 2nd comment – we can’t blame the govt for paying the laborers more than farming or other rural industries.
I’m not in favor of the govt focusing exclusively on freebies like housing & facilities. If it spends money, at least once in a while it should create assets for people. Such as roads or de-silted lakes etc. This is what Roosevelt did during the Great Depression.
Keeping the wages of laborers depressed artificially isn’t the best way – the poor people will simply move to the nearest city & deplete the labor pool anyway.
Thanks for your analysis on farming. Perhaps the govt can sincerely work with the farmers to figure out what their problems are & see how it can be addressed. Some NGOs do great work in Africa to make the lives of farmers easier, increase their yield etc. Time we did something to make agriculture more profitable for the farmers.
Priya,
What’s your opinion about the Sivaganga debacle in this election?
And the previous CEC Gopalasway, sent a detailed report on how Naveen Chawla had been biased to congress, and that he should NOT be made as CEC.. The president rejected this, and also refused to divulge the report sent by gopalaswami.
What’s your opinion on the above?
/** The govt tries to help the lowest strata of the society – those that are in abject poverty. **/
Will the poverty be gone, if the government helped in this way?
Senthil – Why, what other opinion could there be? Are you looking for points of disagreement?
From what I know, I think Naveen Chawla is biased towards Congress. I like Gopalswamy. As far as I know, he behaved in a dignified manner befitting his office. CEC, in addition to CBI, may become Congress’s hand-maiden. After Seshan, CEC had real power, now who knows.
I was stunned to hear that – all of a sudden – P.Chidambaram had won Sivaganga. Thru out the day, media reported that he was trailing. At 1 point, I even heard that they were ready to announce that another candidate had won. What PC’s win means, how that happened – is an open secret I think.
News in dinamalar on how chidambaram won..
http://www.dinamalar.com//Arasiyalnewsdetail.asp?News_id=11069&ncat=TN
Priya.. in that case, why those media were completely silent on this?
Why no one of us discussed this earlier in this post, about this subversion of democracy?
If congress is going to make him the Home minister, where is the justice? Is it not the worst crime? And are this respected learned people of this sastwingees community ignore this, because none of the media wrote about it?
There are many other questions that arise out of this single episode..
/** From what I know, I think Naveen Chawla is biased towards Congress. I like Gopalswamy. As far as I know, he behaved in a dignified manner befitting his office. CEC, in addition to CBI, may become Congress’s hand-maiden. After Seshan, CEC had real power, now who knows.
**/
Priya.. thanks for summing up what i wanted to say..
There are many implications in this.. First, the president of india exposed its partisan and biased attitude, by outrightly rejecting CEC gopalasami’s report..
Second, they have mis-used their power, by NOT making the CEC report on Navin Chawla, public.. From what gopalaswami told in some interviews, he had summed up all the incidents, where Navin Chawla behaved as a congress stooge..
Now consider this point.. Congress already subverting CBI.. They made the president of india, a person with criminal background.. They appointed a CEC, whose credibility is very poor just because he does what the congress says..
ARe you going to consider all those above as smart move by congress, or a subversion of major institutions of this country?
Priya.. earlier in one of the comment you told that Sonia’s ethnicity doesnt really matters.. but consider the following points..
Quatrochi, an italian business men, escaped from Indian Law, by subverting the CBI, through his links with sonia gandhi.. If an ordinary business men could do it, will it be that much difficult for a western spy agencies, to penetrate to indian establishment, by using the sonia’s ethnicity?
In the Nepal Crisis, the Hindu King had been effectively dislodged by Vatican, using the ethnicity of Sonia.. India, instead of considering its own cultural and political ties, sided with vatican, all because of sonia gandhi..
In this election, two things are to be noted..
1. The churches in Mangalore, open worked against BJP, by asking its followers to vote for congress. Serious effort was taken to make each and every christian to enroll in the voterlist, and providing all infrastructures so that they come to voting booth and voted.
2. In Kanyakumari district, the church was successful in consolidating its christian votes, to defeat the BJP candidate.
The above two instances are examples of how Conversions had an ulterior agenda to capture political power.. While the Hindus are largely dis-united, and divided, the churches get lot of concession in the name of minority, and hold their masses as a votebank.
Now coming to the case of Andrapradesh.. There are already 15% Muslims, and the church has a target of increasing the christian people to 10-15%.
With the combined vote block of Christians & Muslims they will be always able to capture the power, and the past history of the church will repeat again in india.. (it has to be noted that the vatican openly declared that christianisation of asia was their agenda for this 21st century)..
Now with Samuel Rajasekara reddy announced subsidy to Pilgrimage to jerusalem, which no other country gives. Now again coming to power, there will be heavy conversion going on in andra, and by altering the demographics of the region, they will again retain the power, and this will ultimately lead to complete christianisation of andra.. Already half of temple lands are sold out, while lot of grants to construct churches are given..
The same case will be replicated in an all india manner, with tamilnadu and kerala being the next target.
Just i came across the following link, on how media manipulates public opinion..
http://www.apfn.org/thewinds/arc_features/media/disinfo9-97.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Maran-Azhagiri-and-Raja-set-to-join-Cabinet/articleshow/4572772.cms
The man who architected the 60,000 crore spectrum scandal, is now again the minister..
And the worst thing now happened.. Azhagiri also became a minister..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/India-buys-US-debts-worth-38-billion-/articleshow/4573196.cms
While other countries are seriously considering the risks in the american debt securities, (China started moving away its Forex to gold), india (MM singh government) is increasing its exposure to them..
A starting proof that a nation controlled by foreigner will cater more to the needs of the relevant countries, than India..
More mortgage of india’s interest to western nations will happen in the coming months..
Rajesh – Thanks for your comment.
Your point about educated folks is well taken – Mumbai registered just 25% of votes, for e.g. I still think discussing political views, performance of our leaders & what needs improvement in our society etc is good stuff. It promotes awareness on issues. That’s a start.
I disagree with you that people voted without due thinking. When I spoke to voters, especially from the lower strata of the society, they had a clear grasp of what their Top-3 problems were. Of course when I spoke to the young, urban educated people, I got some bull – people told me what they thought was expected out of them. Quiet a few of the lower strata voted for “their” party, but that’s probably because they don’t know how to select a candidate. Not because they don’t know the issues. Which is why I think Manifestos should be about real issues.
Yep, mostly our choices are between the Devil & the Deep Sea. Can’t blame people for becoming apathetic.
Senthil, why are you surprised about AP people’s intelligence in voting? Can you please elaborate?
Also, for your other points
1) India exposing it’s debt securities. Is it possible for you to suggest some stable alternatives other than US securities or Gold. Also hope you heard “Buy low Sell High” in market paralance.
2) What is the risk of Church or other minorities consolidating their opinion? Do you think they have the right share of political, economical and social power that is in proportion to their population? Why do you think they are doing it now rather than earlier? What is stopping Hindu organizations from preventing the Hindus not convert in a peaceful manner. You seem to be too much worried about YSR. He has negligible effect on conversions. Voting – yes. But if you think hordes of people convert because YSR is a christian, that seems far fetched. He mentions his religion much much less frequently than Advani talks about Ram or Hinduism. So, dont make silly comments.
3) Sonia controlling Dr.MMS. Hope you know that she is ruling party president and ruling coalition convener. I think she is constitutionally right if she discusses with the PM on matters of policy and suggests what should be done with the right she has. And he is equally right if he discusses with her any important policy decision. That is in fact much better than political sharks like Arjun Singh who opened up the reservations issue and caused the embarrassment for the government. Politics are more consensus based and less I-do-what-I-believe type. And the way Dr.MMS stuck to his guns regarding Nuclear deal speaks volumes of his persistence when it is needed.
4) Importantly, you seem to misinterpret my words. For example “But Sonia to her credit, allowed Mr Singh much more freedom than Sangh Pariwaar had given BJP coalation”. This does NOT mean “Vamsi agreed, that Manmohan singh was controlled by Sonia (alias antonio maino), and that he did only what she allowed”. Far from it. Please read it again.
I can understand your anguish that BJP which you support did not win. It is time to introspect and form proper strategy. Or else, BJP is in the path of self destruction.
For me it is a double victory, a non-BJP govt with no Left support. Hope they run the govt well. I also hope Left and BJP offer strong and constructive criticism to the Govt. We do need that balancing act.
Sukumar/Priya,
I would like to compliment the two of you for choosing the format of a dialogue in expressing your views especially with
a sense of humour/satire. Congratulations on the form of the post. It has come out very well. As regards the content/views, unto each their own very much like the votes in the election, the topic discussed.
Priya,
You might have considered adding a link to your twin posts on democracy last year as elections are an integral part of that experience and process.
Politics and I::Sahara and Antarctica. I don’t trust any of the parties, I don’t trust most of the politicians and I am not sure I’ll ever be able to understand who is really up to do some good for the country. I am fascinated by this debate and the amount of ‘knowledge’ all you folks seem to have about who’s up to what and who means what. I know all this ‘knowledge’ is damn important so you know who to vote for so our country can get better…but is there really a clear choice? Do you see a light at the end of the tunnel? I am an eternal optimist on most issues, but I think politics is an exception. Should we really debate about parties or rather debate about individual politicians? But can individual politicians who don’t belong to winning parties make any difference? The only logical thing to do seems to be to not let any party enjoy continuous power (power corrupts!) and give everyone a chance and generally choose the one who seems to be ‘good’ at that point of time. It’s a stinking mess….I see very few good eggs and – no offense – wonder why people spend so much of their energy and intelligence in analyzing it (even though I understand the implications and consequences of voting the wrong person/party to power – once again, is there a clear choice and can we really prevent dirty politics?)…
PS: Despite not spending any time on studying and understanding politics, I get to know what’s important for me to know….like who are the politicians who are really worth it…and, for now, I am happy with just that much knowledge.
Check this out… http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124279208675238197.html
Nice link Nimmy on ‘India’s Greatest Failure’ – Thanks
Nimmy.. the party which is responsible for that “India’s Greatest Failure, has now again came to power (albeit with lot of riggings.. see P.Chidambaram’s controversial win) “.. what can we say? are we again failing further?
/** Senthil, why are you surprised about AP people’s intelligence in voting? Can you please elaborate? **/
Vamsi.. normally people vote for parties, whether its central or state elections.. and when state and central elections come at the same time, people tend to vote the same party at both the places.. But in AP election, TDP got around 105 seats, which comes to 17 MP seats. But it got only 9 MP seats, which is very surprising.. even if we consider a tolerance level of -3 seats, still it comes to 14 seats..
There are lot of reasons to believe that a massive election rigging had happened in AP too, just as it happened in tamilnadu..
/** India exposing it’s debt securities. Is it possible for you to suggest some stable alternatives other than US securities or Gold. Also hope you heard “Buy low Sell High” in market paralance.
**/
Vamsi.. please read below the concerns raised by china over US currency..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aVq1dGC2ozoY
US securities are NOT like share market.. they are even worse.. that’s why india had always desisted from investing heavily in to it in the past.. But now, as soon as MM singh got back to power, they are approving such large sums in a highly risky american securities..
Its clearly a sign that US is manipulating india, to its own interest..
/** What is the risk of Church or other minorities consolidating their opinion? Do you think they have the right share of political, economical and social power that is in proportion to their population? Why do you think they are doing it now rather than earlier?
**/
Vamsi.. Most of the conversions in india are funded by large amount of Foreign money.. Most of the churches in india, is under the command and control of the Foreign missionaries.. (Vatican, evangelical etc)..
The church consolidates its head count and use it as votebank.. with an unorganised majority, they will be able to win a seat, or influence a particular seat or party.. By this, the church acquires a political power..
Using the political power, it gets concession to its members, depriving the Non-christian Majority.. This will further fuel more conversion, and the church getting more followers and more consolidated votes..
(Also pleas remember the POPE’s assertion in 2000, that he want to convert the whole of asia to christianity)
As i said earlier, most of the churches are under the control of their foreign donors.. Do you get the point here?
Dont you see a danger (NOT just risk), in allowing a powerful entity, that owes its authority, command and control to a foreign institution, getting political clout in india, unfairly against a unorganised Hindu Majority? Wont they be a tool for foreign countries to subvert india?
Democracy is a process in which each individual votes according to his conscience, without any external influence or pressure. When a church, uses its religion, to influence its followers to vote for particular party in the name of god, is it NOT a violation of Democratic process itself?
When you are opposed to caste politics, how is that you dont see any thing wrong in religious politics of the minorities? And when you could oppose a politics in the name of Hinduism, how is it fair for you to support a christianisation and islamisation of politics?
At this present context, i could only give you the example of East Timor, which fought for independance, just because it is a christian majority.. and also please remember the secessionist movement in North East, just because it is a christian majority region..
——————–
/** What is stopping Hindu organizations from preventing the Hindus not convert in a peaceful manner. **/
There is only one answer.. Please compare the budget of Hindu Organisations and the Christian Missionaries.. you can understand the reason..
Please see the following videos about how indirect violence and fear is unleashed in Cauvery Layout, Bangalore… ( I hope, those who are in bangalore, can take some pains to visit that cauvery layout and verify themselves..)
part-1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8woHykQgB8
part-2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICWHHOcYPVw&feature=related
part-3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5v0IGoa10k&feature=related
part-4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmeE_2SDhSw&feature=related
When conversion itself is conducted in a violent manner, how can you accuse the opposition to be peaceful?
The kandhamal is caused by the Killing of Swamy Lakshmananda. The mangalore issue is caused by Sathya Darshini
Violence by the Hindu Organisations are the outburst of anger and suppression done by missionaries from all quarters? The Violence by Hindu organisations had always been the retaliation to certain attacks by christian missionaries..
There is always a cause and effect here, and if the effect is to be avoided, the root cause has to be rectified..
Senthil,
You still did not answer the question. If India wants to diversify it’s national assets in various global assets, which is the most reliable and stable bond? Is there any instance that US did not honor a treasury bill or bond. China’s fears are genuine. Are you suggesting that we should not buy the US T-bills at all.
Regarding rigging in AP – Hope you heard that AP CEO IV Subba Rao and the praise he got from all quarters? Also if someone is rigging, can they not do for both ballot boxes? Rigging being local phenomenon, why would somebody not do that for Assembly ballots rather than Lok Sabha ones? Doesnt seem to be logical? So, let us give the credit that voting is fair (to large extent) and people are smart. In Assembly level, PRP took 15% vote share and Communists and TRS screwed in a big way. Lok Sabha, as far as AP is concerned, nobody thought BJP as a viable party. So voted for UPA/ Congress.
Thanks
Vamsi
Vamsi,
I am not an economic expert to suggest best ways.. but to my knowledge and comprehension, i could understand that american securities are highly unstable, and unpredictable in the future, and hence risky to invest.. From some sources, i heard that america is now printing more dollars, and due to that, the value of dollar will decrease at international level, due to over supply.. that’s why china is concerned over its large investment in dollars..
And if you accept, china’s fears as genuine, it naturally applies to us also..
Regarding election rigging, please see the latest news below.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/comment/reply/35720
One more link, on why EVM’s cannot be trusted in secret balloting..
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Dangers+of+trusting+them+too+much&artid=h35XNrmrJrg=&SectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo=&MainSectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo=&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik=
Advani’s probe for inquiry in to 26/11 rejected..
http://www.thehindu.com/holnus/000200902010308.htm
Educated people should question, why such demand is rejected.. It should have been done long back..
Kasab is going another Afzal guru, and he would not be hanged in the near future..
Earlier, CEC’s recommendation to remove Navin chawla outrightly rejected without any reason..
Demand for releasing CEC’s report on Navin Chawla also rejected by president, and this report is kept out or RTI reach.
And see the attitude of the media, projecting advani in negative tone..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians-car-torched-in-Oz-cops-claim-no-racial-motive/articleshow/4627026.cms
The racial attacks is happening continuously in australia, and we are seeing how pathetic the present government is..
Yet another example, why we need a nationalistic government in india.. the present government is spineless to demand anything concrete from the australians.
Such issues needs special care from the highest offices, and its questionable, why MM singh is quiet on this, and his master still further quiet..
Vamsi.. For your kind info, i am sharing the following election details in Andhra pradesh..
Karimnagar and Nizamabad are well known backward districts of Andhra Pradesh. Each district have 2 seats each for center and all 4 are won by Congress. Now, in both districts combined out of 22 state assembly seats, only 4 assembly seats (out of 22) are won by Congress. How can it be possible the uneducated class of people would distinguish which party they would give their vote between state and Center?
In Palacole constituency (West Godavari) it is believed to be constituted by 80% of Kapu Vote which should go in a big way
for Mr. Chiranjeevi but he lost that election. Is it a big conspiracy against chiranjeevi?
There are every possibility that EVM’s are tampered.. and the fraud winning of P.Chidambaram is never discussed anywhere, eventhough it was a known secret, that his result was twisted..
Are Electronic Voting machines tamper proof?
An article in The Hindu
http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/17/stories/2009061755160900.htm
/** BJP has the unenviable task of finding a replacement for Advani. Will it be Modi? They better get cracking on cleaning up his “Minority Baiter” image.
**/
Why Modi? the following link, is a best example, how gujarat has set as a role model for the entire country.. In terms of employment generation, their achievement is astonishing..
http://www.slideshare.net/www.narendramodi.in/gujarat-no-1-in-employment-training
Btw, Modi as minority baiter is NOT a BJP’s problem.. it was media’s creation.. the sachar commitee report has proved that muslims are most well off in gujarat, than the so called people’s party ruling WB and kerala..
I missed this important accusation that sukumar made..
/** I’m happier with a moderately competent government, that is peace-loving & non-threatening to communal harmony. Rather than a potentially competent – yet, rabidly communal government! The latter can cause severe harm to India’s stability as a society.
**/
This is a blatant accusation without proof, repeated often in this blog.. THe following simple statistics shows, that the above statement is false to the core..
*Sikh separatism was result of indira gandhi (which undermined the integrity of india)
*kashmir compromised by Indira gandhi in 1971 war.
*Kashmir ethnic cleansing – result of indira gandhi’s polarisation of muslim votes..
*Sikh massacre of 1984 – congress’s genocide, which later Rajiv Gandhi justified as “Big Tree falling”
*Babri Masjid demolition – Under a congress government at the centre, tactically supported by Narasimha Rao..
*Recent Gujjar agitation fuelled by Congress
*Dera sacha issue in punjab fuelled by congress, immediately after akali dal won
*2002 is not the only riots that gujarat faced. In 1967 (under congress rule), 2500 people killed in a communal violence.
On a comparative note, BJP ruled for 6 years, and except for 2002 , they had maintained communal harmony and peace, even at the cost of Ram Janma Boomi..
The BJP had handled the Gujarat Riots, efficiently, more than any other congress regime..
The following website, clears many of the myths of gujarat riots, and how Modi called on the army on the second day of the riot.
http://www.gujaratriots.com/
After reading, one would understand, why Modi could not be touched by congress, even after 5 years of their rule.. Most of the accusation against him is false and malicious..
Its also a wonder, that the 56 men, women and children, who were burnt by the muslim mobs, were never mentioned anywhere.. are their lives not worth even mentioning?
Forgot to mention the bagalpur riots of Bihar under congress rule, where more than 1400 people are killed..
List of riots in ahmedabad right from 1700s..
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0302/131.html
Nice debate Sukumar and Priya.
I don’t really care if Congress won or BJP lost but the worrying thing is a non-performing govt for the most part apart from one or two successes can afford to win. Whether it is because there was no better alternative or whether it was because they had the media in their pocket – either way it really stinks. Elections in India are for the most part 26 state elections in parallel. So I wouldn’t really count vote in Karnataka as a vote for Advani nor a vote in TN as a vote for Manmohan. No state in India barring probably Delhi (even there it is Sheila) votes on national issues even in national elections. So if there are reasonably popular/performing governments in states, they win (read Karnataka-popular at the moment, Delhi, Chattisgarh, Gujarat etc.). Here are my reasons as to why it really is not so great a national vote.
1. The worst surprise for me was election in Maharashtra where by splitting anti-incumbency votes, the ruling combine managed to win despite probably being the worst state government in India since independence – failing on every front. And we call them harmonious (Cong+NCP), give me a break. If the BJP openly espouses disharmony, Congress does it behind the door. No wonder, they let Raj Thackeray loose initially as his votes would only benefit them. Congress quite simply follows their predecessor – British in divide and rule. There are several examples to this tune. I would rather handle a visible enemy than one that is hidden.
2. Some of the policies quite simply are plain appeasement. It is empowerment which helps people grow and not appeasement. Just read the Congress manifesto – you can ask me why one would want to do that, but that’s a diff question altogether
3. The Indian media is a very funny animal and sometimes I don’t understand how they just put in their perspective as the news. If only, one watched some of our mainstream (read neutral- I would never call them that) news channels closely, people would understand. From calling opportunism as open-heartedness (read the Rahul episode when he wanted to tie-up with everybody under the Sun
)
/** The Indian media is a very funny animal and sometimes I don’t understand how they just put in their perspective as the news. **/
Very true.. But its a sad fact, that the same funny animal is controlling most of the urban english educated people..
Latest Update:
Election rigging has been demonstrated by a senior IAS.. Inquiry ordered..
http://ia.rediff.com/www/news/2009/jul/04was-election-2009-rigged.htm
But, the credibility of navin chawla is questionable, and so as his order of inquiry..
Union Minister influences Madras HC Judge..
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20090630/808/tnl-madras-hc-judge-threatens-to-write-t.html
And the union minister is nothing but popular spectram scandal Raja.. Ofcourse, this is not relevant, as long as MM singh maintains his minority appeasement AKA secularism..
India was sold out by MM singh in egypt.. the lives of the 26/11 are conveniently forgotten…
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/15317/its-sellout.html
a perfect example, how a puppet PM, could never take ownership, as the authority lies somewhere else..
Yet another sell out of our defence by the UPA .. no self respecting nations can accept this.. where is our dignity?
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_us-may-get-to-check-indian-military-bases_1276191
“US inspectors would be given access to Indian military bases to inspect American military systems in service with the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force, under the text of the end-use monitoring agreement agreed upon by the two sides on Monday during US secretary of state Hillary Clinton’s visit to India.
India does not have such an agreement with any other country
”
UPA ignores kargil heroes, but goes on to recommend honour for enemy.. this is an insult to our kargil heroes..
http://ibnlive.in.com/printpage.php?id=97858§ion_id=3
An excellent article by a former army major on strategic blunders of india..
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=729
Not to mention that it is the same congress party which undermined our army, lost tibet, gave away one third of kashmir, inspite of 92000 captured POWs, lost to china..
Is there any rational in supporting such a party, inspite of the above.. And more importantly we are seeing that UPA has never been answerable either to parliament or to the people, both in the last term, and also in the current one.
MM singh has boldly misleaded parliament in the last term by telling a blatant lie about Nuclear Deal..
Now, he is never apologetic about selling away our national cause, by accepting Balochistan in the egypt agreement..
Senthil,
I missed these comments. I don’t know what your purpose is? Every political party makes its share of mistakes. If i spend 10 min, i can dig up enough dirt about BJP and its ilk. If you don’t like Congress, that is fine. It is okay to keep that opinion. Please don’t think that you can convince others by dishing dirt/mud slinging on the Congress party and its leadership. Congress has its flaws like every other party. If you don’t like it, don’t vote for it. And for your information, just in case, you don’t follow, the people of India have spoken, Congress has won. Please try your luck in the next election. So long.
Sukumar,
i am surprised at your comment.. hope, you wont dismiss the following as simple mistake..
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/centre-decides-to-withdraw-case-against-quattorocchi/522852/0
The indian government had decided to withdraw case against quotrochi..
Another spectacular example to prove, that antonia maino, alias sonia gandhi, had abused indian government machinery to save her italian family friend..
I think, priya had gone to the extent of equating such a person with kannagi somewhere in the earlier comments..
just because i support the Congress does not mean i agree with everything they do.
Why didn’t the BJP pursue the Bofors case when they were in power?
Sukumar,
Just now saw your above comment..
Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. Its a matter of grave national security and national dignity. The truth that we infer from this incident is that an italian businessman could use the links of the italian wife of Indian PM, to bribe indian officials, take commission, and then when detected, again use the same italian link (NOW the head of ruling party), to subvert the CBI of India, and escape from indian judiciary, and then finally, use the same link, to dissolve the case against him..
ie, when even a normal businessmen could do this, its pretty imaginable, that the foreign intelligence wing would have much more penetrated in to indian administration..
This incident is a proof of how indian media protects nehru dynasty by distracting public opinion, and also indicates how dangerous it is to have a foreign born person at the residence of india’s PM..
Today, the same italian history is repeated once again thru the rahul baba in the form of a columbian girl, who is residing without public knowledge in 10, janpath…
Now, an important video by subramanya swamy below..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjdFujlVwo
Hope, from what happened on quotrochi issue, swamy’s claims could not be discounted..