Imagining India
TweetUpdated 20 Apr 2009: NR Narayana Murthy has published a book as well. He talks about giving access to inexpensive English education and computers to everyone. Exactly Sir.
Updated 10 Apr 2009: Imagining India links to this review on their site. Thanks Imagining India.
Managed to read the recent book Imagining India by Nandan Nilekani – one of India’s top entrepreneurs. Judging from the title of the book, i had imagined that the book would be some kind of a glorified story of Infosys. What can i say, i was completely wrong.
Nilekani has produced a 485 page magnum opus covering the key ideas that have shaped independent India in the spheres of politics, science, education, food, poverty, power, water, economics.. Interspersed in this sweeping discourse are some futuristic but practical ideas, that could take India to the next level [If only our politicians read this].
Within just the first 100 pages, Nilekani’s in depth research as well as the sheer breadth of the topics shines through. I could not help admiring the amount of work that must have gone in to write this book. Even those, that have been following post-1947 India closely, will benefit from reading this book, thanks to the extensive research done by Nilekani.
Nilekani’s ability to put ideas in perspective is worth appreciating. For example, in the chapter titled “The Phoenix Tongue”, he explains how English became the key language in Southern India, thanks to Tamilnadu’s vociferous opposition to Hindi imposition and the embracing of the English language by the South Indians. [I am also of the view, that if not for the anti-Hindi agitations, the whole of India would have abandoned English completely foreclosing the rise of the Indian IT/BPO industries which are now the engines of the Indian economy. By the same token, the Hindi belt states, by abandoning English, could not participate in the IT/BPO industries and prosper. I hope the Hindi/Tamil and other local language chauvinists take note of Nilekani's points].
On a related note, he points out in the chapter titled “The Awakened Country”, that the Green Revolution, the White Revolution and the IT Revolution, have all passed by the BIMARU states (Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh) [my view - Thanks to ignoring English].
He rails against the subsidy economy – giving subsidies for power, food, oil etc. Given his IT background, he advocates a smart card based system where the Government can give the benefits directly to the deserving citizens instead of subsidies which are indirect and almost never reach the intended recipients in full. Brilliant idea. [During my stint in America, i admired their use of Food Stamps, using which poor citizens could shop in regular grocery stores like everyone else. Why couldn't we do that in India - where Public Distribution System stores distribute rice, wheat, sugar, cooking oil etc at an enormous cost to the taxpayers with corrupt employees siphoning off the goods into the black market leaving the recipients with rotten stuff. The entire cost of maintaining the PDS can be given away as direct benefits].
His criticism/appreciation of both the UPA and the NDA governments is quite balanced. The telecom policy introduced by NDA govt which gave rise to India’s mobile revolution gets the praise it deserves and so does Manmohan Singh’s, P. Chidambaram’s (UPA) economic policies.
Overall, i found myself nodding my head for many of his well-researched view points on eGovernance, Power issues, Green issues, Education issues, Water issues etc. Nilekani analyzes the mistakes India has made and at the same time presents potential solutions which are quite practical instead of some pie-in-the sky idealist dreams.
I totally loved Nilekani’s statement that is at the very end:
This is why I believe that the only way to push changes through and safeguard our economic future is to create a safety net of ideas. It is imperative to ensure that our ideas transcend political agendas and are endorsed and demanded by a large number of people. if we can do this, we will insure our future against instability, slow growth and inequality.
My prediction is that Nandan Nilekani is entering politics. I hope for India’s sake he does enter politics. He certainly gets my vote.
Local language chauvinism is bad. What’s worse is this English addiction. A language shapes ones thinking. And elite thinking ability is being sobotaged by English addiction. How do we strike a balance?
Some examples.
“Murti” is Idol in English when it shouldn’t be. We have become idolators, ripe pickings for missionary enterprise!
“Sewa” is Charity in English when it shouldn’t be.
Languages dying!
http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/03/languages-dying.html
Excellent Review Sukumar. I haven’t read the book yet but your review increased my curiosity. In my view, we lost more than gain by protesting against Hindi, TN/South India was boycott by central for a generation time. But i need to read the book before comment about Anti-Hindi stance and English.Nilekani should come to main stream of Indian politics to fix all mess in our country. Thanks for sharing with this review.
-Subba
Kiran,
Thanks. Why does the adoption of English as the official language lead to the death of Indian languages? In fact, one can argue that the adoption of Hindi has actually killed off many North Indian languages already. At the end of the day, we all have to put food on the table. From a language perspective only English can do that today. If we have to prevent languages from dying we need to undertake other measures like encouraging people to speak it, read it, publish it etc. Take the case of Singapore – the main language is English, but they have people learning chinese, tamil or malay depending on their mother tongue compulsorily. Why couldn’t we do that ?
The cure for our dying languages is not banning English. That only leads you down the path of Sri Lanka – where Sinhala became the national language. Without English skills, they are finding it difficult to enter the IT/BPO market.
What would be your solution to the problem of dying languages? BTW, as an anthropologist, i view dying languages as a big problem, but like i said, banning English doesn’t help the cause.
Subba,
You are right, i think Tamilnadu did lose a lot by objecting to Hindi. In fact, even today you can come across North Indians, who view Tamils as second-class citizens because many can’t speak Hindi. The other South Indian states were smarter in adopting both Hindi and English.
However, a careful reading of history will show that without the violent and vehement objection to Hindi put up by the Tamils, Nehru would not have backed off of his Hindi only policy.
This is why as Nilekani says, India made many right decisions because of the democratic nature. When a lot of people object, the government is forced to back off. While that may slow decision making, it does lead to the right decisions on many occasions. Don’t you think?
Its not just adoption of english language.. but the elite hood status of english, that’s crushing other languages.. we failed to treat english as another language to learn.. rather, our people treated english as the gateway to a elite life style..
IT/BPO contribute only meagre amount in indian GDP.. the estimate will be from 3-5%, as the following data suggests..
http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2005/apr/28it1.htm
so we cannot say IT / BPO can provide food to all people.. rather, we need self-reliance, indigenous thoughts and policies, strong government and a mobilising society.. Poverty alleviation has never been an objective or result of IT..
But i view IT in the way it shapes the thinking process.. where every problem is dealt analytically.. this kind of thought process should percolate to other sections of the society, and this is where IT could help india really..
I also agree with Kiran on the influence of language in conveying meaning… as he said, there is lot of difference b/w the word charity and seva.. there is no equivalent word for Yoga.. and there are many other words, that connect with our tradition and culture, that we lose all those things, because of blindly adopting English..
Money is not the sole criteria for development or progress.. we can have even more number of IT companies, and even more dollars, and more per-capita income.. but unless we learn to manage ourselves, as a nation, and unless there is no proper social leadership, we can never be a developed country, no matter how much money we have..
Also, leadership should be for the people, and NOT people for the leadership.. that means, the leadership should lead and empower the people, and should not involve in changing the society or changing the people.. after all, we are only computer engineers and NOT social engineers…
Sukumar,
Excellent review. Coming back after a long break I am catching up on all the posts. I see a striking resemblance in the thought process with someone I know that should be entering politics
Your review increases curiosity over the book. Nice post !!
Senthil,
The link you provided talks about the level of IT investment not IT’s contribution to GDP. IT/BPO is the engine of the economy upon which the rest of the economy rides for the most part. Every IT job creates between 8 – 10 jobs. Being an entirely export led industry unlike other industries, it brings vauable forex without which India’s forex reserves will be non-existent. And given our Oil import bill alone, India would be deeply in the Red.
What is elite lifestyle? Having a car, tv, fridge is elitist? What should we do? Crawl back into caves? And what is the connection to English. In China, where most people don’t speak English yet, also are yearning for Car, TV, Fridge etc. Whole of South America doesn’t speak English (not as widely as India atleast) and there also it is the same car, tv, fridge lifestyle. For your information, these are global lifestyle standards not something connected to English as far as i can see.
I don’t agree with Kiran’s viewpoint. English doesn’t change words from our indigenous languages. Learning/Speaking english has nothing to do with speaking our own indigenous languages. English is the language of Business the world over. Not learning it is foolhardy as has been experienced by our BIMARU states.
I find your statements on leadership perplexing. We have over 500MM people that are poor and out of that close to 300MM are abjectly poor. How can we change this situation, without leadership changing the society and its people? I don’t get it.
Thanks for the kind words NK.
Thanks Rajesh. I am glad to hear that.
Sukumar,
Thank you for the much awaited review. I think I should read that book.
Why should a contrarian view be without any logic?
Thanks Vamsi. I didn’t understand your point on contrarian view?
I should have been a bit more clear. Contrarian view of some commentors on this site like linking English as business language will make India backward and we lose our identity etc.
A national business language is a great unifying factor IMO
Thanks Vamsi. You are right, having a national business language which is also the world’s most popular is fantastic.
Sukumar,
I am giving another link from assocham, that categorically states that IT ( & ITES) contribution (NOT investiment) will rise to 7%..
http://www.assocham.org/prels/shownews.php?id=843
I am pointing this to highlight the fact that IT is NOT everything for the nation. In my opinion its not the engine of growth, as claimed. (The real engines of growth are liberalisation, and Internet and mobile revolution, which IT is the greatest benefactor). There are many other sectors that contribute more, but eclipsed by IT boom. For example, there are more than 750 Industrial clusters, that developed on its own, without any government support. (again, IT in india was heavily subsidized through tax concessions).
In this scenario, I should say Nandan’s idea seems to be mostly centered around knowledge technology oriented sectors. He didnt cover india in its entirety, and thus had ignored many other sections, like agriculture, SSI, etc and also the unorganised sectors which provide maximum jobs to our people.
Definitely his ideas were great, but we have to see it at face value.
His notion of chaning the society is not feasible. Because, when we attempt to change the society, then we are under assumption that we are right and the society is wrong. That means, the society should heed to what we say, and in one or the other way, our wishes are imposed on the society.
Also, your stand that to eradicate poverty, one has to change the society and its people, doesnt seems to be a viable or a practical one.. To eradicate poverty, we need good governance and people’s empowerment.. the rest of the things will taken care of by the people and the society.. certainly there will change, but that change would be the end result, and should never be a pre-requisite for eradicating poverty..
If society evolves, there would be progress.. But, if one attempts to change the society, there would be chaos.. we have seen enough in the world, when the communists attempted to change the society in more than half of the world in the name of revolution..
TV, fridges, Car, AC etc are luxury life styles.. they are present even in remote villages.. I am not about those things..
Elitist life style that i pointed out is different, that was the result of english language education in india.. Some of the key attributes of elitist life style are:
* A sense of pride and superiority complex, where those who dont know english are looked down upon.
* Using english in all walks of personal life, due to which the space of mother tongue and local language is shrinken.
* Belief, that only english language will bring enlightment,
* Acquiring a western lifestyle which is contradictory to the life style that they came from (eg. pub, discothe etc ).
* A sense of shame and shyness in identifying themselves with indian tradition and culture.
* Loss of belief in the native traditions. particularly, the rural tradition.. (eg: the abusive word like “country brood” )
There are many other things that i can point out.. but my core message is that english language is NOT learnt as another language in india.. rather, it was learnt along with another lifestyle..
I am not against learning english language per se .. rather, in the way, it was taught in india..
I have seen lot of persons who studied in english medium school, and have debunked their own fathers, because of the rural attire.. They were ashamed to invide their parents to the school/college function.. Even, i myself had felt the same, when my grandfather came to see me in my school, wearing a dhoti, and white shirt..
THere is a fundamental problem in the way english is taught.. while we cannot and should not ignore english, we should strive to take care that english is learnt only as another language..
And whether we agree or not, today, Hindu is the national business language, except for tamil nadu..
And to counter the claim that IT flourished in south india because of hindi oppostion, i am pointing out the calcutta, PUNE and Noida. They have embraced hindi, and also they are flourshing in IT..
Senthil,
1. IT/ITES is the engine of the economy. That does not mean it is the biggest contributor to the GDP. The point is, success in the IT/ITES sector has given India the confidence that we sorely lacked before that. Before the success of the IT/ITES industry, India’s population was seen as a liability. Now it is seen as an asset. IT/ITES success has wrought many other fundamental changes in the Indian mindset that was not possible before. Additionally, it has generated a lot of benefits due to the consumption/purchasing power of the employees of that sector. Why would you not agree with this?
2. Nandan has written a 485 page book that covers a lot of things including the unorganized sector. The fact that i highlighted 2 points in his book doesn’t mean that is all that the book had. Please read the book and then draw your conclusions.
3. Why do you take it that when change occurs, someone is wrong? Is being wrong the only way to change? That is a very limiting notion of change. It is obvious that something has to be done about the 500 million people in India that are poor. That something would involve the creation of jobs for these people and that would mean these people have to have the skills for these jobs, which may mean that these people have to learn some new skills, which would mean that these people need to change. Now, where is “wrong” in this picture?
4. Additionally, Change does not mean chaos. Who told that you that has to be the case with all changes? Look at South Korea, Japan, Singapore and other countries which have managed to move their people up significantly. Is there chaos in these countries? Why do you always take the worst examples of change?
There is a saying in English – “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”. The problems that you have with Elitists is not due to English. There will always be elitists in all societies. With or without English they would be there. To blame English for the presence of Elitists is incorrect.
I studied in an English medium school which taught us an overdose of India/Hindu traditions. Your notion that English being taught in the incorrect way is too far away from the truth. It is nothing more than a medium of education. I am sure there are some Elitist schools that are English medium. That doesn’t make all English Medium schools elitist. Additionally, just because you know a few people from your village that are elitist and that is because they studied English, that doesn’t make all English students elitist.
Senthil,
Whether Hindi is the national business language is not the point. I think it is in North India. In South India, even outside Tamilnadu if you goto the rural areas you will need to speak the local language. But that is not my point.
English is the language of business the world over – that has a broader connotation. approx 600,000 books are published in English. Millions of papers, articles are in English. Research is communicated using English. If you don’t know English you will not have access to this wide and growing body of Knowledge. That is why it is foolhardy to not learn English. We can never translate/replicate into our languages even a fraction of that material without humongous efforts.
Opposing English as a medium of education is a flawed and impractical policy.
I said this above and I am sure you know this. IT/ITES industry rose to prominence in South India. I am sure you can find some IT companies operating in remote areas of the country. You can’t now claim that they have embraced the IT revolution.
I also agree that Tamilnadu lost out due to Hindi opposition. But the point i tried to make is this – without the violent opposition to Hindi in Tamilnadu, Nehru would not have backed off from Hindi imposition and Hindi would have taken the place of English. that would have worked to India’s disadvantage because the IT sector would not be able to rise up as the engine of the economy.
Hope that is clear.
Regarding the language, I feel the issues happens because of following
1. Use of native langauge = upholding of culture ( let us not even go , so what is native to tamilnadu the aryan vs dravidian debate.. to me it is a waste of time )
2.English represents culture
A friend of mine said we invent a word “Perundu” for bus..why?? all over the word Guru is used so well why try to get the english equivalent and harp on it.
Karunanidi knows tamil very well, Annie Besant did not, wondering who has made a more impact to mankind.
Language is just a tool. Definitely each tool has its advantages. “Kalambitanda” “Appu vachutanda!!” “Ambale” coloquial tamil has its charm if I tell this in english the fun is lost. “Pinnitanda” if I say this in english the batsmen weaved the bowlers.. AARRGHH!! kills the spirit.
Langauge as a tool has its usage scenarios. Being an architect , I see this problem with folks today getting hung up with technology than the solution. they see them as one entity. i guess same with Language/Dressing equated to culture.
A senior architect says “A fool with a tool is still a FOOL”.
Sukumar,
If english is the world business language, then why are our associates learning chinese, japanese, german, french, spanish etc.
Considering the fact that german economy is the largest in europe, and japanese is the second (or third) largest in the world) and chinese economy larger than india, we only find, that each of those country does business only in their native language.. and that’s why, almost all of indian IT companies encourage their associates to learn one more language than english..
thanks Kumaran. You are right equating Language to Culture is a big mistake. You are also right in that knowing the native language does not mean following its culture. i hope people can understand that.
Senthil,
Why don’t we ask this question – if Hindi is India’s business language, why are people learning Kannada, telugu, malayalam, gujarati, marathi, bengali etc. ?
BTW all the countries you mention have also adopted English as an important language (including the French). In any case, when did i say English the only one you must learn.
Let me give another example – why should we all learn java, .net etc why not continue to learn only COBOL – more than a billion lines of code still exists in COBOL and running in production for your info.
The point is, we have to be pragmatic and learn a language that makes the most sense from a business standpoint. That language is English without a doubt. That does not mean one should not learn other languages like French, German, Spanish etc.
If it were upto me, i would urge everyone to learn 3 or 4 languages atleast. The more you can communicate with the world the better you will be.
BTW, what is your reasoning behind why we are learning these other languages, other than English? Wouldn’t those languages spoil our culture? Why wouldn’t we just learn Hindi and stop at that? Isn’t that enough?
Kumaran,
/* Karunanidi knows tamil very well, Annie Besant did not, wondering who has made a more impact to mankind. */
I feel, the comparison here is inappropriate.. thayumanavar, vallalar also knows tamil very well, and they had marked more impact on the mankinid than annie besant.. here language doesnt comes in to picture..
You said, Language is just a tool.. but a tool is fit only for a particular purpose/solution .. probably, a tool can fit to a set of purposes.. but no tool can be used for all problems..
Similarly, languages, as you said, each have a usage scenarios.. and we should use that particular language for that particular scenarios.. even for literature, its the same.. we should learn vedas only through sanskrit.. if we learn it thru other languages, the core content may be lost.. today, most of our english learned indians learn vedas and other sanskrit literatures (like manu smriti etc) thru english and come to quick (wrong) conclusion on it..
today’s tamil we are learning is entirely different from the tamil that existed some 300 years before..
THere is no grammar in spoken tamil (IyaR tamil) .. only tamil ilakkiams has languages..
However in english, there is no grammar for poetry.. only prose has the grammar..
But the impact of english has caused so many aberrations and changes in tamil, that we have applied the grammar for prose in tamil too, thus making it lose its spoken value .. similarly, the non-grammatical way of writing poetry has also impacted tamil in the form of “Pudhu kavithai”, where there is no grammar followed… result.. no grammatical poetry was written today and this is one of the decay that tamil is facing..
Today, it has acquired a racial character and the some tamil racists (particularly DK) are attempting to purify tamil.. they are proved wrong, simply by the numerous scriptures (kal vettu & pattayams) where the spoken tamil is used as it is, which contained sanskrit words also..
To take a reasonable stand on this language issue, my view would be that if we allow using of nouns from other languages, there will be no problem.. but if we allow verbal words from other languages, then the entire language is affected.. that is what happening today to tamil and other indian languages..
eg: soap வாங்கி வா —> this is fine
write பண்ணு –> this is where the problem is..
Sukumar,
I never said, we should NOT learn other languages.. my stand is that because english is a global language, it cannot be a substitute for indian languages, as suggested by vamsi.. we can learn any number of languages.. but they should not replace our mother tongue
Let me summarise my understanding of why english got prominence as world language..
1. Historically, the british conquered more than half of the world, for around 200 years, and implemented english education there.. and also it was the most powerful nation and secured important trades in favor of it..
2. In the present context, America monopolized the world trade, brought the petroleum trade under its control, established its own currency as the world currency. Because of these, every nation has to earn dollar to import petrol and other things. If dollar has to be earned, it has to export to america. and to export to america, it has to learn english..
Before america, britain was the world power, and then america became world power.. because of this, english has been continuously the international language for over a century..
Indian IT companies has been doing business mostly with america in the past, and hence english was sufficient so far. But now due to financial crisis, companies are diversifying their business, and hence we are in the situation to learn japanese, chinese, french, german, swedish etc..
In future there will also be request from our IT companies, to include those languages as part of school curriculum.. In such circumstances, english would be just one of the languages we learn..
—————————————
With the above understanding, i am placing this question… suppose, if only 50% of the revenue is from america, and the rest from other parts of the world, wont those languages be a part of recruitment parameter.. ie one of the job requirement would be to know any of those other languages.. in such case, job seekers will start to learn those languages, as it started happening now.. just like spoken english, there would be centers for spoken french, spoken japanese, spoken chinese ..
In such circumstances, english will lose its monopoly..
Great Review Sukumar… Will try to read the book when i get a chance…
I am not a great fan of infy esp after NRN and Nilekani of late seem to give more holier than thou attitude …
Would deft luv to check it …
@ Senthil…
I dont think Sukumar is telling us to ignore the vernacular..he is just asking to also include English in the diet… and i totally agree to it…
second thing is that we have all these debates just because we know English..else this community if was in Vernacular we not any of these….English i do feel helps us to learn more in the current scenario..
Senthil,
This is in response to http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/04/05/imagining-india/#comment-10266 to Kumaran.
I think you need to read some more about grammar, language etc. Spoken Tamil doesn’t have grammar? Who told you that? When you write, a more formal language is used. That is true of all languages including English. Due to that spoken and written languages are always diverging. Given that Tamil has a history over 1000s of years the divergence is marked. Also due to this lengthy time period, a number of dialects have appeared and some have become full-fledged languages like Malayalam.
You make an interesting point about nouns and verbs being borrowed. Once you start speaking other languages, the influence is not preventable. For instance, we have so much Sanskrit influence in Tamil. In fact due to Sanskrit influence new letters have been added to the Tamil alphabet. How come you don’t object to that? But you object to English loan words?
While the DK are chauvinists, there point about Sanskrit’s influence on Tamil is entirely accurate. However, what they are forgetting is that we can’t turn the clock back on history.
Senthil,
You missed my point. I am advocating the use of English as a medium of education and learning the local languages as well as other foreign languages as a subject.
This is an important distinction to understand.
I see language in the modern day as having 2 important roles – one is in learning science, geography, world history, technology, management, business, laws, ethics.., second is in culture, literature, entertainment etc
For the first category, we should choose a language where the most research and teaching work is happening. This is so that we can take advantage of all the published materials without having to translate all of the material. Imagine learning Management theories in Tamil. Who is going to translate all the material that is getting produced into Tamil? English language books published per year is approx 650,000. Who is going to translate these into local languages? Even a fraction of them cannot be translated and doesn’t get translated.
Why should we prevent our population learning a language that gives them access to the world’s greatest repository of knowledge – English publications?
For the second category, we should use our local languages so that we can learn about our culture and preserve it as well.
Other foreign languages we will learn for the sake of getting business or for expanding our opportunities or for some people just the fun of learning new languages.
Does this make sense to you?
Thanks Karthik. Please do share your views after reading the book.
Karthik, please read my most recent comment to Senthil. I am advocating the use of English as a medium of education not just as another language to learn.
As you pointed out, without English, we will not be having this discussion in this blog. Good one.
Nice review Sukumar. Will add the book to my reading list.
About the other discussion about English and it being the defacto language in which business is conducted – I think this needs to be taken in a positive spirit.
It needs to be seen from the angle of survival – we as Indians have the spirit to learn new things that would lead to our upliftment. Of course, in the case of English, we do have some advantage having been colonized by the British. However, as mentioned in this thread, we would be willing to learn any other language if it provides us upward mobility in terms of financial security.
What has impressed me more is how the Chinese have been able to function and leverage things to their advantage in this ‘english’ dominated business world, even though they started at a disadvantage from a language perspective.
Ganesh
Thanks Ganesh.
You are right, Indians are resourceful enough to do what is right to advance. But we are arguing about politicians getting in the middle and messing things up with outmoded ideas on langauge, culture etc.
Yes, China’s rise is impressive. They passed a law a few years back that everyone should start learning English.
Meanwhile our politicians still want to play votebank politicis whipping up linguistic chauvinism (and othe r kinds of chauvinism as well) and freebies.
Nice post Sukumar. Now, I am really curious to get the book..
Thanks Akshay. Look forward to your comments after you read the book.
/* Spoken Tamil doesn’t have grammar? Who told you that? */
Sukumar.. i was telling about the tamil of 300 years back.. today’s tamil grammar for prose (that we study in school) has derived a lot of english grammar..
Regarding the sanskrit influence, it was multi-dimensional, and in many cases complementary.. i agree to your point on heavy sanskrit influence.. for example, the most commonly used word “Kathai” was derived from the sanskrit word “Katha”.. i had asked many people for the relevant tamil word but no one was able to tell..
But in this modern world, where there was lot of awareness and realisation in languages, i feel, in order to refine our tamil language (also other indian languages), we have to create new vocabularies from its tamil root words.. only then, the language will survive in the long term.. that need not be done over anti-english emotions.. but in a positive tone..
In sweden, they are using their own vocabularies to refer to various things.. for example, to represent Laptop, they are using a swedish word which means “Small computer” .. (it was told by my friend who is studying there)..
So, we need NOT be anti-english or anti-Hindi to develop our language.. we need to accomodative to use words from other languages possible, but at the same time, we need to be self-reliant in our language..
Senthil,
Spoken and written Tamil both have had a grammar atleast for the past 2,100 years or so since the days of Tholkappiyan.
can you please cite specific examples of tamil prose that uses English grammar?
I don’t agree with your views on creating Tamil root words. Very few cultures have been successful with creating new words for loan concepts. For your information, Car is Seerundhu in Tamil, but i will give you 100 Rs. if you can find a man on the street that can explain what Seerundhu is? and for your further information, we have a term in Tamil for computer – Kanini, again a word no one uses.
Languages grow by the practitioners incorporating loan words/concepts quickly. English is the prime example of this phenomenon. Trying to create new words is an outmoded strategy and it does not work as we have seen in Tamil.
You are arguing my point on the last one. You started with an anti-English position and now you are saying we need not be anti-english or anti-hindi to develop our languages. That is exactly what i have been arguing as well.
As far as Tamil is concerned, Hindi/Sanskrit are as alien to it as English. In this globalized world, framing a strategy around my language, my nation without regard to how we fit into the world, is an exercise in futility and will fail miserably – BIMARU states of India are the case in point.
/** You missed my point. I am advocating the use of English as a medium of education and learning the local languages as well as other foreign languages as a subject.
**/
This is where our core difference is.. i am advocating Tamil (mother tongue) as a medium of education, and use english and other languages as a subject.. Please see the below unesco report on the importance of education in mother tongue..
http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=20280&URL_DO=DO_PRINTPAGE&URL_SECTION=201.html
The understanding of concepts and knowledge content has to happen in Mother tongue in education.. otherwise, the very purpose of learning would be lost.. I have personally observed the state of present generation students, where they dont know both english and tamil properly.. this is what our current education system is creating..
You had also quoted about 6 lakh books published in english language.. i feel that argument doesnt holds good because of the following reasons..
1. Since people learn english as another subject, they would be still able to read any english books, they need to refer.
2. Not all people are reliant on those 6 lakh english language books..
3. Only a fraction of population, mostly acadecians does research in science, and the rest of the population learns just what they need.. so we cannot enforce english medium education just for those few researchers and acadamecians..
4. The present generation of people, who studied in tamil medium had proved to pickup english, when they enter in to IT field.. if that model is further strengthened at school level, it would be an appropriate system for our diverse linguistic states.. that people learning everything in mother tongue and learn english as another language, to understand english research books.. this will increase expertise in both mother tongue and english..
Senthil,
Children have the ability to pick up and speak multiple languages. There is a lot of neuroscience behind that. You may want to read up on that. Learning in mother tongue produces better understanding of things is a debatable point. Even if that is correct, it can be true only for basic concepts. it is next to impossible to teach advanced concepts especially when advanced research is communicated in English first. It is not just research. Try teaching Management in Tamil. And we will discuss after that.
Learning English as a subject is fine, but then when you want to learn advanced concepts, you need to have a deeper understanding of English which wouldn’t come if it was just another subject.
Only researchers and academicians need English?!! That is such a narrow viewpoint. It appears you and i live on different planets. You don’t consider yourself and myself as people of this planet, is it? We won’t be able to last in our jobs even 1 day without English. In fact, we have our jobs because we know English and that is true of the entire $40Billion $ Indian IT/ITES industry (our revenue from non-English segments is not much). Let us do one thing, let us give back all this business back to the western world and stop learning English. In fact as some one pointed out above, we would not be having this conversation on this blog without English.
I have come across several students from all strata of society who struggle with English because they are exposed to it very late in their lives and proves to be their disadvantage. In this world, without near-native fluency in English, you cannot succeed. I maybe exaggerating that point for effect, but that is very close to the truth.
The local language proponents like you severely underestimate the ability of children to learn. The thirst for learning is at the highest when one is a child. Children have orders of magnitude more neurons waiting to be connected up through learning.
Local language proponents like you generally use Mother Tongue learning research (which is very limited in scope) to oppose the so called foreign languages. Of course, the same level of objection will not be given to languages that are considered local like Hindi or Sanskrit which are as alien.
This policy just keeps our people in the dark, prevents our people from connecting with the world exploring and creating new opportunities for themselves. And we have the shining result of these policies – the BIMARIU states of India. If the mother tongue research is correct, the BIMARU states shoud have become the shining beacons of progress in India because all they studied is the mother tongue Hindi.
/* Only researchers and academicians need English?!! */
I am being mis-understood here.. everyone can learn english.. however my point is that only researchers and other professionals in knowledge oriented fields, have the requirement to refer large number of books in english.
But the majority of people, like bank employees, farmers, labourers, traders, and people in many other fields have fixed kind of work, and do not have the requirement to read such large number of books.. for them, the basic requirement is to know about their own fields, and how to do their business.. That can be taught in the mother tongue itself, which is enough for them to self-sustain.. additionally they are equipped with english knowledge, so that, they would be able to refer any books in english related to their fields..
Secondly, when mother tongue is used in many fields over a period of years, there will lot of materials that will be produced in that language itself, after that the subsequent generation will have lot of such material in their mother tongue itself..
Sukumar.. we both are in agreement in necessity of learning english.. we differ only in the position of english in our education..
/** In this world, without near-native fluency in English, you cannot succeed. I maybe exaggerating that point for effect, but that is very close to the truth
**/
This may be only partially true.. for fields like “Call centers” and BPOs, and outsourcing dependant jobs, this is entirely true..
For other fields, this is not true.. 80% of indian economy is indigenous.. that means, 80% of people dont require english to do business in india, as their business is done within our country..
there are several industrial clusters in india. (i think around 750 ).. they are centers of engineering and entrepreneurial peoples.. most of them dont know english much.. eg: surat, sivakasi, ludhiana, tiruppur, namakkal etc..
in my own town, there are many crorepatis, who started as cleaners in their childhood, and later progressed to become transport owners.. many of my relatives had progressed like that.. they all dont know english, yet they succeeded.. (but their children who received english medium education, do not have the courage to take their father’s business)
Not knowing english is only a handicap.. but to say that we cannot succeed without it, is false.. english is an enabling factor for those successful aspirants..
Why i am saying is that, we think only in terms of IT field, and NOT in a broad perspective..
Few days back, i was trying to teach HTML, web designing concepts to my relative students who are studying engineering.. i gave him the HTML tutorial ebooks, and asked them to read and practice it.. but i found that he was able to read english, but could not understand it..
Then i focussed on teaching him, how to translate a long english sentence, and slowly he picked up.. he now learns out of his own, and i clarify his doubts only in tamil..
ofcourse, i use nouns and objects as it is (like html editors), but use the verbs in tamil.. this is very effective, and i realised, the verbs are important in a language, and should be as much as from native languages..
Now i am encouraging them to document what they learned in a blog, in tamil itself..
I will give an analysis of my effort after few months about how effective it is..
Senthil,
We are not in agreement at all. English needs to be the medium of education. There is not a single field you can name that is not knowledge-oriented. In fact, this is the reason, why the world over now there is a realization that people are an asset – the earlier world view was that population was a big liability.
Mother tongues have been used in India for over 5000 years, where is the scientific material? where is the research material?
Wouldn’t it be easier to look at the current state of research in a certain field and build on it? Why do you insist on using the mother tongue for science/knowledge when a gazillion pieces are available for us to read? that 650,000 books i mentioned is in just one year. There are millions of materials books, articles etc. Even the most frequently cited ones cannot be translated into local langauges without humongous efforts and by the way, who is undertaking this effort? Do you have any citations for such massive translation efforts?
Senthil,
I think we have argued this before. IT/ITES drives the economy and drives the purchasing power which helps other industries to grow through.
You and i don’t work in BPO do we? Why do we need english then?
Those successful entrepreneurs that don’t know English would be 100 times more successful if they knew english.
your HTML example argues my point. If the person you are teaching had English fluency you would not have to teach them HTML in Tamil. There is a saying in English – it is better to teach man to fish instead of giving him the fish. Think of the enormous effort wastes in teaching people in Tamil by translating from English – instead of teaching them English and allow them to learn on their own?
The only reason for using Tamil or Hindi as a medium of education is due to a mistaken notion of what constitutes culture. As long as we hold such outdated views of language and culture, we will remain a third world country.
/** can you please cite specific examples of tamil prose that uses English grammar? **/
the words like “மற்றும்” , “செய்யப்பட்டது” etc are examples which came in to existence out of english grammatical influence.. we could not find such words in any of the pattayams, or kalvettu.. if it is found in tamil literature (older than 300 years) pls let me know..
If we observe the srilankan tamil prose, its mostly written in the way they are spoken.. that’s why its beautiful..
Generally, in the three types of tamil (இயல், இசை, நாடகம்) iyal tamil (spoken tamil) has no grammar.. becuase its meant for people’s convenience and communication.. however, there are stricter rules for isai and naataka tamil.. please enlighten me, if its otherwise..
(PS: some people say, the word naatakam is absorbed from tamil in to sanskrit.. )
/** For your information, Car is Seerundhu in Tamil, but i will give you 100 Rs. **/
I agree.. no one will use these.. but these are creation of those tamil chauvinists.. i was taken back, when i read those tamil words displayed by ramadoss in many places of chennai 4 years before.. like வழுவல் கட்டி for soap, etc… i agree with you that these are ridiculous…
nouns can be taken as it is.. however, we can form verbal words in tamil from its roots..
/** If the person you are teaching had English fluency you would not have to teach them HTML in Tamil. There is a saying in English – it is better to teach man to fish instead of giving him the fish. Think of the enormous effort wastes in teaching people in Tamil by translating from English – instead of teaching them English and allow them to learn on their own?
**/
I accept your point that we need to teach people how to fish.. that’s how i am approaching the problem.. I am teaching them, how to interpret english, through a comparative study of both the languages, so that they can learn it .
However, i find it easier to teach HTML in tamil than english and they also find it easy to understand.. as i said earlier, i took a moderate position, to use english words for nouns and objects as it is, while using tamil for verbs..
This was very useful even to teach to those students who studied in matriculation.. for example, i just gave guidance to 4 final year engineering students 6 months before, and they did an open source project on their own, using ruby on rails..
http://rubyforge.org/projects/eduerp/
The language of communication among us was tamil for the past 6 months.. they study the english books for rubyonrails, and then discuss the technologies with me in tamil.. even the documentation was planned in tamil, but since this project was submitted as academic project they did the documentation in english..
I am saying this because, i myself did this as a POC (
) to test the feasibility..
When we master both the languages, our scope of thinking broadens.. we understand english and process the information in our mother tongue..
the tamil writer sujatha is an excellent example, where he proved that science fiction movies can be written in tamil..
/** Those successful entrepreneurs that don’t know English would be 100 times more successful if they knew english. **/
That’s my point sukumar.. english is only an enabler to have more success.. however, to say that without english we cannot succeed is wrong… these industrial clusters proved that they can become successful without knowing english.. if they know english, they can broaden their scope..
In tamilnadu, most of the tenders are called in tamil.. and my father communicated with those government departments only through tamil in all his government projects..
We can come to the following conclusions..
1. All localised business doesnt need english as primary means..
2. All international business needs english as primary..
depending on the domain and scope of business, we can choose an appropriate language of communication/learning
/** Mother tongues have been used in India for over 5000 years, where is the scientific material? where is the research material? **/
I think, mother tongue is NOT used for scientific research… our ancient universities Nalanda and Taxila had many departments of learning, including medicine etc, but they used sanskrit..
On those days, prakruthan was the people’s spoken language, while samskritam was the pandits language… (again pls correct me if i am wrong)..
Even now, we have lot of scientific materials in sanskrit that is not decoded.. after the 16th century, a lot of travellers collected sanskrit from india, and transported it to their own country, for their scientific value.. Newton was said to had a library of sanskrit books in his house..
If we saw the enormous progress of science in europe, it was only after British colonised india..
We had enough scientific material in india, but in sanskrit and poetry tamil.. (eg: sidhar maruthuvam, ahathiar nanooru etc.. we still have these books in our home)
Senthil,
Is kalvettu the only place to look at? Have you looked at the literature? Sanga Ilakkiyam for example. i don’t know enough about those 2 words to say with conviction yes or no? but it seems to me, your view that if it didn’t exist in kalvettu it doesn’t exist does not seem to be correct. The Rig Veda for example has been with us now since 1700 BC and it was not written down for 1000s of years. But is old all the same.
There will always be some influence when a people start speaking a language. There are quite a few words in English borrowed from Tamil. especially in spoken language the influence is harder to hide.
I don’t see a problem with that. Sanskrit has the influence of dravidian – the whole class of retroflex consonants in Sanskrit are due to the dravidian influence. That means a core sound of the language has been influenced. this is how cultures merge and things change. This is the inexorable march of time.
Spoken and written forms of language always diverge – this is a point i already made. That is how languages evolve.
You have an interesting point about nouns as okay to incorporate and verbs as not okay seems to be incorrect. For example, blogging is a new verb. why can’t we adopt that foreign verb into Tamil instead of Valai Padhivu Seydhen with a further explanation that I was blogging? Resisting the evolution of a language is pointless. Let me ask you, is it okay to adopt new western technologies like Radio, TV, Internet, Cinema etc to propagate your language? Why not we ban those? We won’t because we can use those media to convey our thoughts and reach more people.
The only way to protect our language is to speak it, learn our literature, write literature, books, magazines, newspapers, telecast TV, Radio programs , Internet sites, Youtube, Wikipedia everything. By increasing production of content we can increase consumption of content. That is the only way.
Resisting influence of foreign ideas will prove to our disadvantage.
Senthil,
You missed my point. I realize that you are teaching the person English via Tamil. My point is, if that person was taught in English, the situation you are in today would not arise.
Again, you are arguing my point. by learning more languages our outlook broadens. exactly, when we learn in a language that has more content, publications, science or any subject for that matter our outlook broadens even more. And that language today is English whether we like it or not.
Senthil,
My point is simple – if success can be quantified, say someone is X quantity successful. If it is possible that by learning English, one can be 100X quantity succesful, why wouldn’t we learn English. Isn’t this a simple point? This does not mean that one cannot be successful without English.
Senthil,
I am sorry i made that point incorrectly. What i meant to say is this – we have had mother tongue language research for the past 5000 years – what is the quantity of publications do we have?
Now take the scientific research material published in Indian languages in just the last 50 years since we became independent. How much will this be quantity wise? Then compare the quantities from step 1 and step 2.
Obviously English would have a lot more. Which is why at this point in time, it makes the most sense to learn Science, Management, Technology, Geography, History (to understand world history better), Medicine (most forms of knowledge) in English.
This does not mean we don’t learn our languages, we do. but we focus our local language learning on culture, our religion, our literature, our history, local geography etc.
Very nice review!
Now heading to the offical site, to buy the book
Thanks a lot Lakshman for your kind words.
Senthil,
You may want to read this brilliant article from Jared Diamond on why written and spoken languages vary so much.
http://discovermagazine.com/1994/jun/writingright384/
hey Guys,
Why Should we care for, which language we are speaking and in which region we are living (North and South) as long as our nation is moving ahead..
We can make a difference by concentrating on our careers and voting responsibly…
Jai Hind….
Sir,
Your prediction about Nilekani seems to be in the right direction as he now heads the UIDA.But still, to say that ‘he will be entering politics’ does not appear to be the right term.He is a mere IT entrepreneur whose professional expertise is used by the Government of India and he is likely to have zero political influence even in the future….
His tag in the future,at the maximum, is more likely to be that given to Sam Pitroda or Raghuram Rajan rather than a Manmohan Singh(who has a life long service in public service to know the intricacies of politics) or a Manishankar Aiyer who has carved out a political image and a political decision making power…
Arun,
In my view, holding the rank of a cabinet minister in the govt leading an important govt sponsored initiative counts as being in politics. I am sure most people will agree with me on that. For you, somehow Manmohan Singh who was directly plopped into FM role and now into PM role is a politician but Nandan isn’t? I think you are just splitting hairs. Sam Pitroda didn’t know or didn’t care enough to parlay his role into something bigger. Nandan will most certainly parlay his role into something bigger – another prediction. Like this one came true, i am sure that will also over time. If that happens, you saw it here first.
Sir,
The tag ‘politician’ is a difficult one to define and I guess we may differ on it`s defenition..
The line between a politician and a non politician in public service is a blurred one.
For me nominated rajya sabha members like Kasturi Rangan or Shyam Benegal are not politicians.I guess nobody will care to refer them as politicians even after reffering them as film artist or scientist.Even politically nominated independent Rajya Sabha member like Anil Ambani is not a politician according to me.
Staunch opposition members may still call Manmohan a CEO appointed by a politician but I will differ.From 1991 he is the part of Indian National Congress and is a representaive of the political party.
With the firm patronage of politician PVN and Sonia Gandhi power was thrust upon Manmohan Singh which was big and now it is too large so that one cannot ignore him as a nonpolitician.But one should concede that it was a mere handpicking by a politician monarch and was not because he parleyed for a bigger political role.His experience in public service for years may have significantly contributed in working in the political environment.
Now coming to the case of Nilekani I dont think he will represent the INC or any political party and hence his role will be limited to professional expertise used in the public service.I don`t agree that a rank conferred which is equivalent to cabinet minister will make one a politician .
Nilekani is not involved in any policy initiative but a professional brought onboard for the implementation of an already declared project in the manifesto.
I know that anything is possible in politics and will agree that there is also enough possibility for your prediction to come true.Wish that more honest and capable people should be brought onboard for the service of the country
Arun,
Sukumar does have a very valid point there in the use of the term ‘politician.’
We should not confuse our day-to-day unease with the term ‘politician’ as different from its meaning in the English language.
Simply expressed, ‘politician’ means a person who holds a political office or a person skilled in political government or administration or a statesman or stateswoman.
Several of us wish Mr. Nilekani the very best but whether he would parlay his role into something bigger would depend on the choices he would make as well as the political process / events in the years to come that catapault some individuals into higher/greater responsibilities.
I maintain a different opinion and I don`t think clear cut definitions are available.The derogatory term ‘politician’ is all together different and we have not at all included it in the discussion.
To consider anyone who is associated with the matter of state as a politician may be etymologically valid or may be true as per the definition of Aristotle but in modern world this will be too generic a term.
In India we won`t call the President or the Accountant General or the District collector a politician because they are holding posts in the government.The impartiality and independence of several apex bodies are well defined and the same is expected from their heads.
One who occupies executive branch of the govt are not usually referred as politicians just because they are occupying the positions.Nilekani`s position appears more like the position of a bureaucratic head though he has been provided with a rank equivalent to that of a cabinet minister.
As of now I won`t even agree that the planning commision D.C. Dr Montek Singh Ahluwalia –who also holds a cabinet minister rank and who has more proximity to a political party and who has more experience in public service– as a politician .
And Iam sure not much of the people will call him a politician either.
Thanks Abdul.
Arun,
I think you are splitting hairs as i said before. Let me help you further in that dept. First of all, if you read my post carefully, i said Nandan is entering politics. I didn’t say he will become a politician.
I think you are confused about aspects of public service. There are constitutional posts like that of the President. President is actually elected by the electoral college. It is not a nominated post. While all Presidents are not Politicians, there have been several politicians who have been President like RV. The President is not expected to carry any political agenda.
The reason you cannot call AG or DC as a politician is because they have to rise through the ranks via the Indian Administrative Service.
There is a category of posts similar to UIA, that are created by the Administration. This is a political appointment because, i am sure Nilekani will implement the vision of Manmohan Singh, who is a Congress Party politician. Nandan’s post is very much an artefact of a policy initiative from the Congress.
Therefore, he has entered politics. Whether he is a politician, time will tell.
Thanks for taking pains to comprehend and reply to my messy comment.
I can`t see any edit option once I posted a comment, even if no one has commented after me.
I can make my point with more clarity.
1) The bureaucrats of the country are supposed to implement the policies/vision of the government. But by being a bureaucrat and implementing the government`s policy one cannot tell that the person is in politics. If that was the case we should have ideally said that all the people in bureaucracy are but in politics. The reason we do not call a D.C as politician is because he/she is part of the bureaucracy which is different from being a part of politics.
2) You said holding the rank equivalent to that of a cabinet minister is equivalent to entering politics. Remember holding the rank and status of a cabinet minister and being a cabinet minister are two different things.A cabinet minister has to be a member of either houses of the parliament BUT the one who just holds the status of a cabinet minister is not necessarily to be a M.P….Dr Montek Singh Ahluwalia also holds the status of cabinet minister. Can we tell that Dr Montek is in politics? Or is he a part of bureaucracy ?If that is the peculiarity of the unit planning commission then we can take the case of NSc.
M.K.Narayanan-chief of NSc- holds the rank and status of the minister of state. Adding with this his years in public service can we still tell that M.K.N is in politics? Or is he a bureaucratic professional?
3)Highly important bureaucrats are carefully selected by politicians and there is enough room for using political discretion in their selection. This does not make those appointees politicians.
4)Practically (not sure whether exceptions are available ) a cabinet minister should be atleast a primary member of a political party and should follow the constitution of whichever political party he belongs to.
I don`t think the position held by Nandan ,AS OF NOW,could satisfy enough conditions to tell that he is in politics. The only difference is , instead of selecting members from the Indian civil service who conventionally occupies such positions the P.M has selected a member from the private sector.
The status of cabinet minister will provide him enough administrative power to implement the policy of such a large scale.
PS: There is still some confusion on how Nilekani is going to work under the planning commission since the one who runs the planning commission ,ie Deputy Chairman, also has a rank and status nothing higher than that of a cabinet minister.
PSS: Some of the bureaucrats flirts more with politicians and holds open and strong political views which makes it tough to draw a clear line between the two(Eg Brijesh Mishra was more like a politician but anyway not because of his protocol position but because of his proximity to AB Vajpayeee)
Arun,
I think this argument is all over the place. This is not about whether tom, dick and harry are in politics. It is about Nandan.
To me it is simple – if you read Nandan’s book (which i have done and not sure if you have) and look at his appointment as UIA chief. He is in politics. Period. Manmohan Singh, who has much better credentials in public service than Nandan is now inarguably in politics although if we had had a similar argument about Manmohan Singh in 1991 you may not have accepted that he is in politics.
Here is my reco – please read Nandan’s book. If after that if you still feel this UIA has nothing to do with Nandan entering politics, we can discuss.
Arun,
You may have a logical point.. but i feel, the very purpose of nandan’s book is to have an entry point to the politics..
My prediction would be, he will be elected to Rajya sabha, and then made a formal entry to politics..
Thanks Senthil. Arun, Senthil is right. I think your rules/logic about politicians in general is quite accurate. Sorry if i came across as stubborn. I just wanted the argument to center around Nandan and if he has indeed entered politics, which in my view he has done.
Guys, i came through this page while searching on Nandan’s point on Tamilnadu’s agitation against hindi imposition. Such a wonderful discussion, though old. Didn’t get the privilege of joining this discussion though.
I do agree with you guys on most of the points except a few.
/* Today, it has acquired a racial character and the some tamil racists (particularly DK) are attempting to purify tamil.. they are proved wrong, simply by the numerous scriptures (kal vettu & pattayams) where the spoken tamil is used as it is, which contained sanskrit words also.. */
– This doesn’t seem to be true for me. The DK of Periyar revolutionized things, which are pivotal to what we see today. A small change then though, a large impact these days. Eg: forced entry of temple, eventual reservation system. The current DK is useless and it doesn’t look like having a proper agenda. The purification of tamil is something that has been taken by PMK, if I’m not wrong. Which we all would read back to know thats completely a political agenda.
/* While the DK are chauvinists, there point about Sanskrit’s influence on Tamil is entirely accurate. However, what they are forgetting is that we can’t turn the clock back on history. */
– Again, i don’t think DK focuses on lingual chauvinism. Sanskrit’s influence on Tamil is there,, and then, Tamil also would’ve influenced Sanskrit. DK’s agenda then, from 1930s or later,, have been mostly on atheistic and caste systems. Now people do believe in God, and still don’t believe too much superstitions. Which itself is a big change. Caste discrimination is not there at office at all. However I might not know about government offices. People misusing caste based reservation privileges are there,,, its happening around, which is an unwanted byproduct. But the impact it has created making millions of societies from lower middle class to middle class, mix with communities is because of DK’s stance then, by Periyaar. It fits perfectly for chaos theory proof.
The language roots and their sources are pretty important for any analysis. For instance, being a tamil guy, when I learnt malayalam and telugu, I learnt fastly. I was able to converse in those languages pretty fast. However, when I learnt Hindi, I was able to write fast, but unable to converse very fluently like a native speaker. When I learnt English, it was worse. I was able to write, but unable to converse fluently. Malayalam and Telugu native speakers couldn’t differentiate my accent as quickly as a north indian did. North Indian friends, who speak hindi were able to tell me my accent differences.
I had felt the same from Rajinikanth’s tamil accent from a kannadiga origin, and Jaggi Vadudev Swamiji’s tamil accent from a kannadiga origin, that these guys are from karnataka. But theirs were very close. However, there are many rajasthani friends who live in my place, whose tamil is very different.
Coz phonetically hindi and tamil are different. In fact, Indo aryan languages differ from Indo dravidian languages. This condition is worse if you notice my English. Anyone from the world, can find my accent and language different. I need to practice more spoken english to make speech fluent. So, for a tamil guy to speak fluent malayalam, all he needs is ONE subject, malayalam.
For a tamil guy to speak fluent english, he needs to be TAUGHT COMPLETELY in english or spend most of the time in an English spoken atmosphere. All the private schools do this only to improve fluency. Nothing else.
So mere comparison of two languages will be incomplete. Certain languages for a certain tribe will be difficult to learn, and hence needs more attention. English needs the attention to make us globally competitive.
Regards,
neo
read a short title review of the book here
http://diaryst.blogspot.com/2010/08/encounter-with-books.html