Comments on: Was the Indus Valley Civilization Illiterate? http://www.sastwingees.org/2010/05/02/was-the-indus-valley-civilization-illiterate/ Knowledge is Scrumptious Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:13:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Vinay http://www.sastwingees.org/2010/05/02/was-the-indus-valley-civilization-illiterate/comment-page-1/#comment-18645 Vinay Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:13:14 +0000 http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=2340#comment-18645 Excellent posts these... hmm.. being interested in IVC right from childhood, I always used to wonder that too many bright minds are getting lost in C,C++ for gyaan and can take a look at our history instead to understand their lives better... to me IVC was an utopian society and declined due to unfavorable climatic changes... really wish I could contribute to deciphering the writing on their seals to help unravel the mystery... Excellent posts these… hmm.. being interested in IVC right from childhood, I always used to wonder that too many bright minds are getting lost in C,C++ for gyaan and can take a look at our history instead to understand their lives better… to me IVC was an utopian society and declined due to unfavorable climatic changes… really wish I could contribute to deciphering the writing on their seals to help unravel the mystery…

]]> By: Naras http://www.sastwingees.org/2010/05/02/was-the-indus-valley-civilization-illiterate/comment-page-1/#comment-15373 Naras Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:39:44 +0000 http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=2340#comment-15373 I read through this posts and your journey of discovery of "real" Indian history (8 posts) with great interest. The journey is impressive and you have a holistic, "connectionistic" approach to reconstructing history. You seem to have made field trips to various parts of the "neolithic plate" a.k.a. fertile crescent and made imaginative leaps to connect your ideas to observed facts or data. This debate is huge and complicated, also by the starting points, wished-for-results and the assumptions made. I will try to comment on the AIT/AMT (Aryanization) debate some other time. Your diligent rebuttals of the FSW paper show a great deal of hard work, which I appreciate. However, I am left with the feeling that your glass is half-full. Seems to me that you have not completely disproved their assertions, only proved that they can't prove the assertions either. Are you a bit over-eager that IVC should be accepted as literate? I think Zen a.k.a. Sendil's post regarding the fundamentals of literacy are valid. The unconscious benchmarking of civilization as a function of literacy - should be brought out & questioned. As Basu Bhattacharya once said, many Indians are illiterate (nirakshar), but civilized (susamskrth). If we delve deeper into the oral traditions of our traditional education, we may find that it is an alternative system, based on aural map constructions in our brains. For example, the Astavadhanam tradition in Sanskrit, Kannada & Telugu (I am guessing it is there in Tamil & Malayalam as well) is an example par excellence of this type of education and civilization. An interesting description of a recent Ashtavadhanam is given here. http://venetiaansell.wordpress.com/?s=ashtavadhanam A sensitive set of researchers like you should also be aware that tribal people may have their own systems of knowledge, implicit codifications and informal learning that is learned within their circles, in the environments that they live in and is useful to them. Reading and writing may not be required for their life style and surroundings. They may classify the flora and fauna better than any qualified botanist or zoologist. But if you define knowledge as the ability to give Latin, English or Sanskrit names to these objects, then they may fail the test! It is such definitions that the Eurocentric world elite have perfected over the last 500 years. We need to be aware of our own conditioning due to this. I read through this posts and your journey of discovery of “real” Indian history (8 posts) with great interest. The journey is impressive and you have a holistic, “connectionistic” approach to reconstructing history. You seem to have made field trips to various parts of the “neolithic plate” a.k.a. fertile crescent and made imaginative leaps to connect your ideas to observed facts or data.

This debate is huge and complicated, also by the starting points, wished-for-results and the assumptions made. I will try to comment on the AIT/AMT (Aryanization) debate some other time.

Your diligent rebuttals of the FSW paper show a great deal of hard work, which I appreciate. However, I am left with the feeling that your glass is half-full. Seems to me that you have not completely disproved their assertions, only proved that they can’t prove the assertions either. Are you a bit over-eager that IVC should be accepted as literate?

I think Zen a.k.a. Sendil’s post regarding the fundamentals of literacy are valid. The unconscious benchmarking of civilization as a function of literacy – should be brought out & questioned. As Basu Bhattacharya once said, many Indians are illiterate (nirakshar), but civilized (susamskrth). If we delve deeper into the oral traditions of our traditional education, we may find that it is an alternative system, based on aural map constructions in our brains. For example, the Astavadhanam tradition in Sanskrit, Kannada & Telugu (I am guessing it is there in Tamil & Malayalam as well) is an example par excellence of this type of education and civilization. An interesting description of a recent Ashtavadhanam is given here.

http://venetiaansell.wordpress.com/?s=ashtavadhanam

A sensitive set of researchers like you should also be aware that tribal people may have their own systems of knowledge, implicit codifications and informal learning that is learned within their circles, in the environments that they live in and is useful to them. Reading and writing may not be required for their life style and surroundings. They may classify the flora and fauna better than any qualified botanist or zoologist. But if you define knowledge as the ability to give Latin, English or Sanskrit names to these objects, then they may fail the test! It is such definitions that the Eurocentric world elite have perfected over the last 500 years. We need to be aware of our own conditioning due to this.

]]> By: Subba Muthurangan http://www.sastwingees.org/2010/05/02/was-the-indus-valley-civilization-illiterate/comment-page-1/#comment-15173 Subba Muthurangan Fri, 14 May 2010 14:37:17 +0000 http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=2340#comment-15173 No, i wasn't sarcasm, i really meant :) No, i wasn’t sarcasm, i really meant :)

]]> By: senthil http://www.sastwingees.org/2010/05/02/was-the-indus-valley-civilization-illiterate/comment-page-1/#comment-15168 senthil Fri, 14 May 2010 03:25:12 +0000 http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=2340#comment-15168 Subba, I think its not a sarcasm from you this time :) :) Subba,

I think its not a sarcasm from you this time :) :)

]]> By: smuthurangan http://www.sastwingees.org/2010/05/02/was-the-indus-valley-civilization-illiterate/comment-page-1/#comment-15165 smuthurangan Thu, 13 May 2010 21:03:13 +0000 http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=2340#comment-15165 Senthil, super cool, you nailed it. Common sense prevails. Senthil, super cool, you nailed it. Common sense prevails.

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