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	<title>Comments on: Real World Ahimsa</title>
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	<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/10/07/real-world-ahimsa/</link>
	<description>Knowledge is Scrumptious</description>
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		<title>By: senthil</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/10/07/real-world-ahimsa/comment-page-2/#comment-12979</link>
		<dc:creator>senthil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=1749#comment-12979</guid>
		<description>Vamsi,

/** Again – nobody should give entire credit of Independence to Gandhiji. There is more than Congress **/

Thanks for your statement..  this is what i am claiming for long..  I may have my own views which you may not agree..  But, atleast, let&#039;s focus on other parts of indian independance history, other than gandhi..

/** * Consequential results (like deaths of many millions) as Gandhi’s planned agenda **/

I am not saying gandhi planned these deaths... but we have to agree, that gandhi&#039;s wrong decisions, and impractical leadership caused these deaths, which we are hesitating to discuss, and which gandhi is to be held accountable..

/** If Japs occupied India successfully ( at least Indo Gangetic Plain), they would have eliminated Subhas and made a puppet leader as Indian president. They did the same in Singapore, Burma and Philippines.
**/

This is pure speculation..  

A true friend is revealed at the times of crisis.  When japan was at the verge of surrendering, they have arranged for Nethaji&#039;s escape, along with a diversion propoganda that he had died in a plane crash.  Nethaji was safely carried by japan to russia&#039;s border, whereupon he has to take care of himself.
They did not abandon him even when they themselves were at the verge of collapsing..

Pls compare that to what britishers did for india when they left..

Till now, when japanese leaders visit india, they pay homage to Nethaji&#039;s memorial, a display of respect for their ally.


/** How would an average Indian life be different being under Empire of Japan than under Empire of Britan.  **/

We cannot speculate over this.  But, in my opinion, Indian life under japan would have been completely different for many reasons.  The main reason is the cultural ethos of both nations, and that Japan&#039;s main theme was &quot;Asia for asiatics&quot;.  We can speculate many other possibilities, but, the core point is that indian life would be definitely better under japan.

/** At least we know what British can screw and we already were having experience in tackling that for few hundred years. Japanese would have been ruthless.
**/

I am surprised at this comment.. What experience did we had, other than brutal wars and suppression.. As per estimates, british induced famines in India had cost 2 crore lives ..  prior to that, numerous villages were ravaged during 1857 war, which is hidden from official history..

We need to have indigenous thought process about our indian history..  We are colonised by britain at that time, and by that account, britain is our enemy #1.  Its perfectly sensible to align with Japan, and throw off britain.  Some may argue, japan is part of evil powers.. but that is a propoganda..

If Hitler and axis powers are evil for killing 6 million jews, what about america dropping atom bombs in hiroshima and Nagasaki?  And not to discount the fact, that crores of red-indian were killed by britain..

The so called allied powers are No good..  we should not be caught in propoganda war and judge our history by our own interests.  Why should we support Britain in WW-II?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vamsi,</p>
<p>/** Again – nobody should give entire credit of Independence to Gandhiji. There is more than Congress **/</p>
<p>Thanks for your statement..  this is what i am claiming for long..  I may have my own views which you may not agree..  But, atleast, let&#8217;s focus on other parts of indian independance history, other than gandhi..</p>
<p>/** * Consequential results (like deaths of many millions) as Gandhi’s planned agenda **/</p>
<p>I am not saying gandhi planned these deaths&#8230; but we have to agree, that gandhi&#8217;s wrong decisions, and impractical leadership caused these deaths, which we are hesitating to discuss, and which gandhi is to be held accountable..</p>
<p>/** If Japs occupied India successfully ( at least Indo Gangetic Plain), they would have eliminated Subhas and made a puppet leader as Indian president. They did the same in Singapore, Burma and Philippines.<br />
**/</p>
<p>This is pure speculation..  </p>
<p>A true friend is revealed at the times of crisis.  When japan was at the verge of surrendering, they have arranged for Nethaji&#8217;s escape, along with a diversion propoganda that he had died in a plane crash.  Nethaji was safely carried by japan to russia&#8217;s border, whereupon he has to take care of himself.<br />
They did not abandon him even when they themselves were at the verge of collapsing..</p>
<p>Pls compare that to what britishers did for india when they left..</p>
<p>Till now, when japanese leaders visit india, they pay homage to Nethaji&#8217;s memorial, a display of respect for their ally.</p>
<p>/** How would an average Indian life be different being under Empire of Japan than under Empire of Britan.  **/</p>
<p>We cannot speculate over this.  But, in my opinion, Indian life under japan would have been completely different for many reasons.  The main reason is the cultural ethos of both nations, and that Japan&#8217;s main theme was &#8220;Asia for asiatics&#8221;.  We can speculate many other possibilities, but, the core point is that indian life would be definitely better under japan.</p>
<p>/** At least we know what British can screw and we already were having experience in tackling that for few hundred years. Japanese would have been ruthless.<br />
**/</p>
<p>I am surprised at this comment.. What experience did we had, other than brutal wars and suppression.. As per estimates, british induced famines in India had cost 2 crore lives ..  prior to that, numerous villages were ravaged during 1857 war, which is hidden from official history..</p>
<p>We need to have indigenous thought process about our indian history..  We are colonised by britain at that time, and by that account, britain is our enemy #1.  Its perfectly sensible to align with Japan, and throw off britain.  Some may argue, japan is part of evil powers.. but that is a propoganda..</p>
<p>If Hitler and axis powers are evil for killing 6 million jews, what about america dropping atom bombs in hiroshima and Nagasaki?  And not to discount the fact, that crores of red-indian were killed by britain..</p>
<p>The so called allied powers are No good..  we should not be caught in propoganda war and judge our history by our own interests.  Why should we support Britain in WW-II?</p>
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		<title>By: senthil</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/10/07/real-world-ahimsa/comment-page-2/#comment-12978</link>
		<dc:creator>senthil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=1749#comment-12978</guid>
		<description>Sukumar,

/** Please do some more reading up about Gandhi from neutral sites **/

It would be helpful to me, if you could provide the neutral sites that you are aware of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sukumar,</p>
<p>/** Please do some more reading up about Gandhi from neutral sites **/</p>
<p>It would be helpful to me, if you could provide the neutral sites that you are aware of.</p>
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		<title>By: rajagopal sukumar</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/10/07/real-world-ahimsa/comment-page-2/#comment-12963</link>
		<dc:creator>rajagopal sukumar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=1749#comment-12963</guid>
		<description>Senthil,
fantastic logic (sarcasm intended). I will from now on call the caste system - insidious and diabolical instead of &quot;evil&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senthil,<br />
fantastic logic (sarcasm intended). I will from now on call the caste system &#8211; insidious and diabolical instead of &#8220;evil&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: rajagopal sukumar</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/10/07/real-world-ahimsa/comment-page-2/#comment-12962</link>
		<dc:creator>rajagopal sukumar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=1749#comment-12962</guid>
		<description>Senthil,
1. Perhaps you misunderstood my point.  The QIM page in Wikipedia is disputed for the simple reason that it says on the page that some people believe it failed and some people say it is a success. That itself shows that the page is being contested by opposing views. For you to unearth what really happened, you need to read some more. For example, i read John Keay&#039;s version of Indian history and he says that QIM proved to be one of the biggest problems for the Brits because the arrest of Gandhi and other leaders created widespread unrest across the country.  I also read VP Menon and a few others to understand what happened. This is why i asked you to research and write a post. Just quoting from the Wikipedia which everyone can read, cannot be the solution. If you want to understand the truth, it requires effort and you must put that in. The reason you need to write is because you want to dispute commonly understood version of history. Yes, it is possible that that is incorrect, but for that correction to be made, you need to produce evidence. If you are so convinced that Gandhi did not play a key role, why don&#039;t you prove it? Extracting a few lines from a disputed Wikipedia page won&#039;t help. 


2. just for your info, you seem to think that Gandhi&#039;s role is restricted to the QIM. He has worked for India&#039;s independence from 1915. Please do some more reading up about Gandhi from neutral sites. Obviously if you read the right wing sites, who have an axe to grind against Gandhiji, you will not get the truth.  

3. I will say it again, if you are really interested in the truth do some research and publish your findings. No XYZ&#039;s father&#039;s orderly&#039;s utterances should be included as evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senthil,<br />
1. Perhaps you misunderstood my point.  The QIM page in Wikipedia is disputed for the simple reason that it says on the page that some people believe it failed and some people say it is a success. That itself shows that the page is being contested by opposing views. For you to unearth what really happened, you need to read some more. For example, i read John Keay&#8217;s version of Indian history and he says that QIM proved to be one of the biggest problems for the Brits because the arrest of Gandhi and other leaders created widespread unrest across the country.  I also read VP Menon and a few others to understand what happened. This is why i asked you to research and write a post. Just quoting from the Wikipedia which everyone can read, cannot be the solution. If you want to understand the truth, it requires effort and you must put that in. The reason you need to write is because you want to dispute commonly understood version of history. Yes, it is possible that that is incorrect, but for that correction to be made, you need to produce evidence. If you are so convinced that Gandhi did not play a key role, why don&#8217;t you prove it? Extracting a few lines from a disputed Wikipedia page won&#8217;t help. </p>
<p>2. just for your info, you seem to think that Gandhi&#8217;s role is restricted to the QIM. He has worked for India&#8217;s independence from 1915. Please do some more reading up about Gandhi from neutral sites. Obviously if you read the right wing sites, who have an axe to grind against Gandhiji, you will not get the truth.  </p>
<p>3. I will say it again, if you are really interested in the truth do some research and publish your findings. No XYZ&#8217;s father&#8217;s orderly&#8217;s utterances should be included as evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: senthil</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2009/10/07/real-world-ahimsa/comment-page-2/#comment-12957</link>
		<dc:creator>senthil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/?p=1749#comment-12957</guid>
		<description>/** If you call Gandhi a Fascist, which is a term that is used for evil people like Hitler, you are branding Gandhi. **/

Sukumar,

This is a classical example of how we need to clear the fundamental distortions in the meaning of some words.

we have to understand that fascism is just one of the ideology, and those who follow fascism is called fascists, just as we call some people as capitalists or communists. Later due to propoganda of the winners of WW-II, this word became a slur.

Similar example in india is the word &quot;Devadiya&quot; in tamil..  This has been become (Rather made as) most demeaning word in tamilnadu.  But the very literary meaning of the word is &quot;Deva+adiyaal&quot; which equates as &quot;Deva+Daasi&quot;, which means, the women who serves god..  This is equivalent (although NOT equal to) nun hood of the christianity, where the nuns take a vow marry none other than jesus.

However, the same word does not have such slur connotation in karnataka..  Please see the following link..

www.devadiga.com  (which includes community like devadiga, sherigar, moily)..

They regard themselves as a community and do not shy themselves of calling as devadiga..  infact they add their community name in their profile ..  (some names i saw in the matrimonial sections are SOUMYA DEVADIGA , Radha N. Devadiga, GEETA B. DEVADIGA etc) ..  i was first surprised at this, but later understood that its also a community..

prominent persons in that community is our law minister &quot;Veerappa Moily&quot; , as seen in the above website..

I think, many will be surprised on reading this..

My contention here is that we should not be carried away by prevailing slur or distorted meanings of the names..

Now, calling Gandhi as fascists does not constitute branding..

Yet if you feel so, i will change my stance and call gandhi as a totalitarian  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/** If you call Gandhi a Fascist, which is a term that is used for evil people like Hitler, you are branding Gandhi. **/</p>
<p>Sukumar,</p>
<p>This is a classical example of how we need to clear the fundamental distortions in the meaning of some words.</p>
<p>we have to understand that fascism is just one of the ideology, and those who follow fascism is called fascists, just as we call some people as capitalists or communists. Later due to propoganda of the winners of WW-II, this word became a slur.</p>
<p>Similar example in india is the word &#8220;Devadiya&#8221; in tamil..  This has been become (Rather made as) most demeaning word in tamilnadu.  But the very literary meaning of the word is &#8220;Deva+adiyaal&#8221; which equates as &#8220;Deva+Daasi&#8221;, which means, the women who serves god..  This is equivalent (although NOT equal to) nun hood of the christianity, where the nuns take a vow marry none other than jesus.</p>
<p>However, the same word does not have such slur connotation in karnataka..  Please see the following link..</p>
<p><a href="http://www.devadiga.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.devadiga.com</a>  (which includes community like devadiga, sherigar, moily)..</p>
<p>They regard themselves as a community and do not shy themselves of calling as devadiga..  infact they add their community name in their profile ..  (some names i saw in the matrimonial sections are SOUMYA DEVADIGA , Radha N. Devadiga, GEETA B. DEVADIGA etc) ..  i was first surprised at this, but later understood that its also a community..</p>
<p>prominent persons in that community is our law minister &#8220;Veerappa Moily&#8221; , as seen in the above website..</p>
<p>I think, many will be surprised on reading this..</p>
<p>My contention here is that we should not be carried away by prevailing slur or distorted meanings of the names..</p>
<p>Now, calling Gandhi as fascists does not constitute branding..</p>
<p>Yet if you feel so, i will change my stance and call gandhi as a totalitarian  <img src='http://www.sastwingees.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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