Do bridges matter anymore?
Do bridges matter anymore?(On the occasion of Gandhi’s birth anniversary, I dedicate this post to the memory of late Rajnarayan Chandavarkar among the finest sons and historians of India. Raj was based at Cambridge, England.)
“We can help make the world safe for diversity. For in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children’s future. And we are all mortal” – John F. Kennedy
I have a fetish for bridges! I have been puzzled by it myself: whether its those small structures across our very own Cooum , the Thiru.Vi. Ka bridge across Adyar or the Napier Bridge near the Madras University or the Howrah Bridge in Kolkata or the Laxman Jhula in Rishikesh or the Blackfriars bridge across the Thames or the San Franscisco Golden Gate. Recall the movie the ‘Bridge over the River Kwai’ or the TV ad zooming in on the magnificient Tower Bridge of London?! Bridges have me all excited and thrilled. For a long-time I thought this was a fascination promoted by TV and Cinema.
Until I came across this book by Ivo Andric titled the “Bridge over the Drina” It is a fantastic book and clearly ranks as one of the greatest pieces of world literature. Over a period of 300 years, the destiny of the town and the individuals and communities living near the river Drina get inextricably interwoven with the history of the bridge. The bridge becomes a metaphor for the life around it. Andric’s masterpiece documents the unities and challenges between ethnicities and faiths, Bosnians, Serbs, Jews, Muslim and Christians and their relationship with the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. The bridge is a silent witness to the history of Europe over centuries.
Cut to the chase. I turn to the contemporary developments across the world including our country. It seems as if some storms are causing bridges to break down and the chasms widening. There seems to be a growing passion for hate! Horror of horrors. Why would anyone want to have a passion for hate? Nicholas Fraser in his book ‘The Voice of Modern Hatred’ sets out the contours of this problem in Europe. This is truly a global problem. Hate is like a ‘malignant tumour’. Young innocent minds have been poisoned to dislike entire cultures through the sustenance of stereotypes. This is because increasingly one can notice a gross distortion in the way entire cultures, communities and identities are being represented especially in the electronic media mainly because of the violence of terrorists. There are other kinds of institutions and organizations too that indulge in violence but that is a separate subject.
I find myself very concerned with the manner in which society and media creates ideas and images of groups of people and their impact. These images to cite a few often take the form of ‘Muslims’ versus ‘Hindus’, ‘Maharashtrians’ versus ‘north Indians’, ‘Hindus’ versus ‘Christian’, ‘Dalits’ versus ‘upper-castes’, ‘Sunni’ versus ‘Shiah’ , ‘Sinhala’ versus ‘Tamil’ and ‘Christianity’ versus ‘Islam.’ The stereotypes and caricatures of ‘us’ and ‘them’ seem to be on the increase. The blame game as to who is responsible for what mess goes on endlessly.
In this madness, where are innocent, peace-loving people to go? Whom can they turn to for solace? Most sober people have adopted the posture of “Forgive them, O’Lord for they know not what they do!” The less said about the political class the better. Of course, there are always exceptions among them. What about the intellectuals? We are reminded of the ‘Prophet of Gloom’ in the form of Samuel P. Huntington who is (in)famous for his theory of the ‘clash of civilizations.’ His theory of clashes found its practitioners in the person of those hawks who promoted the invasion of Iraq and the ‘war-on-terror’ with all its attendant disastrous consequences. Such hawks made the world a more dangerous place. As for me, I draw solace from my favourite subject ‘history’ which would indeed judge these hawks and their global disciples very unkindly.
History is a great teacher. The problem with us is that we are poor students of this subject. The common refrain is that our teachers made this subject boring for us. Alas, if life were to accept such excuses, then everything would be a cakewalk. We would have often heard that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. I would like to add repeat it at a huge cost to themselves and everybody. I wonder why anybody in their right mind would want to incur these costs. My friends and colleagues often ask me ‘what is the solution to all this? I wonder when an individual falls mentally ill, we escort him/her to a shrink. When a whole society falls sick, what do we do? Which physician knows how to treat ‘collective schizophrenia’? As I write this, there has been terrorist violence in Delhi and attacks on Christians in Orissa and Karnataka.
We are now faced with an epidemic of hate of sorts. Those who believe in religion say that these are signs that the world is coming to an end. Yet others attribute the problem to primordial sentiments and say that it has always been that way and will continue to remain that way. I refuse to buy any of these arguments. I firmly believe that human beings are capable of acting in their self and collective interest in a positive and enlightened manner.
There is still hope for and in reason. I believe that rationality can still play a role in the face of the madness of hate. I believe that millions of people are puppets on a string, or pawns in a chessboard or gullible creatures following the pied piper. It is the ability of ‘vested interests’ (the list is long depending on the context) to elicit consent from the people to their being manipulated. There is adequate proof in historical studies that masses get easily and unknowingly misled through a set of motives different from what is in their interest. And that is indeed what is happening in this world. If there was no perception of threat to each other’s community, several politicians would be called upon to deliver on issues of bread and butter which are far more difficult than pitting one group against the other. This is true of the East and West, North and South, whether its of India or the rest of the Globe. Distraction by peddling hate is a favourite form of politics for those who are desperate for power. We have all seen in contemporary politics, the love for power. We need to show ourselves the power of love!
Now that the picture is clear, what can individuals do? To start with, we can borrow Nancy Reagan’s famous slogan “Just Say No” to hate. To prejudice. To disunity.
We can then build bridges. Bridges of Love. We can all do it small ways. Begin with our neighbours and colleagues – do we in the first place know who they are? Do they have families and children like ours? Take an active interest in their well-being. Move beyond that to the residential area or the street or the locality in which we live. Can we build bonds of trust and oneness? As Kennedy rightly argues are we not all faced with the same challenges? We wake up, go to work, fend for our families, return take care of our near and dear ones. We all have children about whose welfare we are worried about. We all have elders who in the sunset of their lives need our company as much as we need their blessings and counsel. There are plenty of interstices and intersections where these bridges can be built. We just have to think creatively about it. Festivals, Ceremonies, Family occasions, Music, Movies and so much more are unexplored arenas of building a sense of togetherness among individuals and communities. Can the effort of an individual in this matter? Certainly. Drops make the ocean. Its better to light a candle than to curse the darkness!
The challenge before us is to build bridges -across time and space; across castes, communities, religions, races, languages and not to miss gender. We need these bridges badly. There will always be naysayers. The villains. The troublemakers. Is it not noteworthy that during war, bridges are the first structures to be destroyed to prevent the movement of people and supplies? To those who believe in a God, (s)he made us such: different from each other. Varied and Diverse. Tomes have also been written on the ‘unity of existence’ that brings together all these differences. There is no religion that by itself preaches hate – that religions can be used to create tensions is a different matter. I believe that the ties that bind people with one another are sacred. Let no one undo those bonds of togetherness.
It is the bridges that connect us all. I for one am a die-hard romantic. Its high time that all peace-loving people resisted the stereotypes promoted by the media and thought beyond them. I raise a toast to several friends, colleagues and the ‘common man’ who have rejected these caricatures. I was brought up on the staple of ‘Enlightenment’ with the firm belief of a ‘common humanity.’ I believe friendship and love will prevail. I think we need to take ‘bridge-building’ more seriously than ever before. We have to work at it.
Abdul,
What a beautiful post with the analogy of the bridges!!! After reading it, I feel much more optimistic. Virginia Satir mentions in her book “The New PeopleMaking” that the family is a microcosm of the world. “Parents” are the peoplemakers of children. As you mentioned, the initiative has to be started from the family. The children of the family have to be taught not to have “unreasonable” bias against any caste/culture/group/race/gender.
There is a very depressing trend I am seeing in my batch of friends. I know atleast a couple of Hindu friends who are so extremely biased against Muslims. Any amount of talking or making them see “reason” is to no avail. One of the major reasons they got this bias was from their family (the friend’s siblings were strong haters of Muslims).
We indeed need to build bridges of love and friendship. That is the need of the hour.
Nice post Abdul. As Saraswathi has observed, bridges are an apt metaphor. Let us take an oath to spread the message of love, friendship and tolerance. As Gandhi said eloquently – an eye for an eye would leave the whole world blind.
Superb post… with practical suggestions… very heartwarming.
Abdul, I read it once. Then read it again. and want to keep reading it again and again. Beautiful post. Coincidentally I was watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKOw7VoRiog last night ( and Bill Maher is equally critical of what these mediators of God preach from other organized religions as well). The point is very clear, either we become pawns in the hands of these bigots and divisive forces, or yield to these fanatics and let our lives be dictated by them.
We need strong moral leadership who are not hypocritical. Sometime vote bank hypocrisy is too evident. For a complex entity like India, it is even more challenging. Strong doesnt mean hawkish like Salaluddin Oweisi (of MIM Party) or L.k Advani. Someone like Gandhi who is morally strong.
Great post, Abdul.
I really liked the practical approach of building bridges. But it is very hard to build bridges now in this segregated society set up. Love marriages are one way of building bridges between two distinct cultures.
Again great one and at right time too…
Abdul
What an inspiring post… beautifully written… Please share your thoughts in our official blog as well. Am sure you will make wonders.
Warm regards
gayathri
It is a pity that the country which claims to be the largest democracy, is in reality one of the largest ‘mob-ocracies’. While political parties are trying to fill up their vote banks by toying with bridges, it is indeed the right time to build bridges that are based on the universal truth- Love and Compassion.
Abdul,
This post was something that I have always been dreaming of, but always fell short of words. Something that I keep discussing with my friends but never thought it could or rather should be shared this way. This post should be the beginning of an end to hate. We need people who firmly believe that such bridges will be what our future depends on. An awesome post indeed.
Abdul: beautifully articulated post – but I think its a little myopic in its treatment of the subject. Some of my thoughts.
History is not a teacher – its just documented facts. The teacher is, YOU! It is how you choose to interpret events that gives life to ‘forgotten facts’. If you read history with peace in your heart, you see all the wars as meaningless. If you choose a different perspective, you will see winners and losers.
You suggest that peace brought through love is long lasting – Ironically, the moment you find a reason to love, there is no love. In this case, “love thy neighbour so you dont lose your life” or “love thy neighbour as it is a better long-term option for peace”, will not cut it.
Love cannot be the instrument for peace. Love comes first – peace follows. OK…how do we evoke the dormant ‘love’ in someone towards life, nature and others? Thats what religions attempted to do – but they have not succeeded!! Do you see a pattern? We go in circles…
On a different note, Rationality and love are two different things – very rational people can ‘reason out with you as to why there is nothing called Love. So, please do not be too attracted by ‘reason’ as reason almost always seems to be contextual.
Wonderful post, Abdul. i’m reminded of a verse from Hitopadesha (some books claim it is from the Rig Veda). Anyway, i’d learnt it in school several years ago and it has remained my most unforgettable quote:
“ayaM nijaH paroveti gaNanA laghu-chetasAm
udAra charitAnAM tu vasudhaiva kuTumbhakam ||”
Meaning:
“This is my own and that a stranger” – is the calculation of the narrow-minded,
For the magnanimous-hearts however, the entire earth is but a family.
Having posted it on the occasion of Gandhi Jayanthi, you have paid a wonderful tribute to the Father of the Nation, but looking at your eloquent language and idealogy that embraces romanticism, you seem to be more closer to Nehru
.
An anonymous reader of the post would like to say:
Abdul,
I like the way you chartered out a path for peaceful co-existence, by beginning small. After all, my macro thoughts and actions are strongly influenced by my micro sphere – nears and dears.
However, I wonder if we need to revere history as a great teacher. Is she not the greatest inciter around? Don’t we time and again delve into our past to re-ignite our flames of hatred? Like Sivaji for Maratha nationalism, like the disputed Ayodha worship center? The need of the hour is futuristic focus and our present thoughts and actions should be governed by that.
Allow me to pick on a few of your meaningless mutterings,
>History is a great teacher.
History only teaches that we do not learn from history. So history is not a great teacher at all
>There is still hope for and in reason. I believe that rationality can
What are you basing your hope on.
>>>>These images to cite a few often take the form of ‘Muslims’ versus ‘Hindus’, ‘Maharashtrians’ versus ‘north Indians’, ‘Hindus’ versus ‘Christian’, ‘Dalits’ versus ‘upper-castes’, ‘Sunni’ versus ‘Shiah’ , ‘Sinhala’ versus ‘Tamil’ and ‘Christianity’ versus ‘Islam.’ The stereotypes and <<<
Prior to the coming of british there was no such divisions.
As far as muslims and christians are concerned, our Hindu rajas welcomed them they became a functional unit of the society. There was really no them versus us. The concept of minorities was invented by the british.
Abdul,
Bridges not only link the places but also the hearts and minds. In some places where people cannot build bridges hanging bridges have been built. This shows the need for bridges. True bridges are wonderful works of human beings which last longer but the speed with which our modern media and communication networks destroy the bridges both physical and mental call us work to bridge bridges faster and urgent as Mahatma Gandhi had done. Thanks Abdul for bringing in the metaphor of the Bridge which would inspire us to think in diverse ways.
Thanks Saraswathi. As its said, charity begins at home. You are very right in saying that we need to train our children not to have any “unreasonable bias” as you put it.
Thanks Sukumar. Gandhi is even more relevant now than ever before.
Thanks Ananth.
Thanks Vamsi for your kind words. I think its important to pay more attention to spirituality per se than “organized religion.”
Thanks Subba. Whatever “segregation” as you put it or distinct identities would be around but I think the challenge is how all this is woven into a single fabric of a harmonius society. The terms ‘tapestry’, ‘mosaic’ or even ‘collage’ is sometimes used to describe plural societies and I think we need to appreciate the beauty of (to use a cliche) ‘unity in diversity.’
Thanks Gayathri. I agree that love and compassion are the key to the way forward. However, we need greater thought on how to translate such values in day-to-day life when we deal with people from different backgrounds as also how to configure these ideals in public policy. Such an achievement would be translating Gandhi’s dreams into reality.
Thanks for your kind words Karthik. Its heartening to read that you shared these thoughts.
Thanks Surendar. Yes, I see the limitations of rationality too. Yet I would like to think that while reason may not be able to eliminate hate, at least it can be a ‘speed-breaker’ to its march.
Thanks Soumya for your comments and the lovely verse from the Hitopadesha. Yes, Nehru too was a great romantic and its between him, Gandhi and Tagore that much of the nationalist discourse was centred upon.
Thanks to the anonymous reader. Indeed the invocation of history can cut several ways. History itself is not the problem but the purposes for which it is invoked. When history is invoked to create and justify violence, then its no longer the ‘use’ but the “abuse” of history.:( Point taken however! How we invoke, present and represent history is very critical!
Thanks Venkat. The colonial policy of ‘Divide and Rule’ did create new problems for the colonised people.
Thanks Ivan.
Surendar,
Interesting viewpoint. You are right it is upto an individual to draw the appropriate lessons from History. But that misses Abdul’s point. The point is, we as a society are not drawing the appropriate lessons from history. Everyone is upset, rightly so, about the Britishers’ evil divide and rule policy. But we are doing the same thing today by marginalizing the muslims and christians and dalits etc.
As for the other point about love and reason, i respectfully disagree. If you read up on neuroscience, you will notice that most of the basal emotions – hatred, fear, prejudice, carnal feelings are amygdalic (originating in the Amygdala). It is these basal emotions that the purveyors of hate/prejudice are tapping into and dividing the society. By using the frontal cortex (which is where reason resides in our brain), we can avoid succumbing to the basal emotions. Also, applying reason, does not mean love is not part of the equation. Love and Rational are not mutually exclusive. Reasoning is what separates us from the animals. That is why it is critically important to develop reasoning.
Hope that helps.
Venkat,
Interesting to note that you find Abdul’s mutterings meaningless. I am wondering whose mutterings are meaningles – Abdul’s or yours?
1. “History only teaches that we do not learn from history. So history is not a great teacher at all” – Isn’t this Abdul’s precise point that we are not learning from history? We don’t want to learn from history and hence it is not a great teacher. Somehow this is a very meaningful line of reasoning?
2.”>There is still hope for and in reason. I believe that rationality can What are you basing your hope on.”
Please see my comment above to Surendhar why we need to use the reasoning part of our brain. If neuroscience is too much to place your hope on, next time you feel hatred/prejudice – succumb to it and you will know the value of reason almost immediately.
3. “Prior to the coming of british there was no such divisions.
As far as muslims and christians are concerned, our Hindu rajas welcomed them they became a functional unit of the society. There was really no them versus us. The concept of minorities was invented by the british.”
This shows poor awareness of the turn of history. No wonder you say you can’t learn from it. Until about the 12th century AD or even later, Vaishnavites and Shaivites were killing each other. The entire Jain religion which was very popular in Tamilnadu has been wiped out of Tamilnadu. All these happened atleast 400 years before the British came. The caste system the world’s worst discriminatory system was in place for a few thousand years before the British came. BTW, before you go off on any tangents, i am not trying to argue that the British were holy. They caused a lot of evil. But to say that we didn’t have divisive evil amongst us before the British is delusional.
Sukumar
Abdul’s post is about India and you are focusing on Tamil Nadu alone. So you are already wrong there. Sure there have been isolated intances of intolerance and violence. But no sustained, systematic pattern of victimization emerges. The proof as they say is always in the pudding. India is has the most diversity, pluralility, and is the most inclusive country in the world thanks to the belief system bequethed by our seers. In fact there are more tribals and dalits in India whereas tribals and others in other parts of the world have either disappeared or are on theverge of exticntion thanks to systematic cleansing and genocide exercises.
You say caste system is the worst .. that is your opinion.
My opinion is caste system is the best thing that has happened to india. There may be intolerance here and there. But I don’t see India burning on accord of caste. Do you?
Venkat, Is Tamilnadu part of India or not. If we consider it part of India, it means we have to own all the things good or bad. You say Caste system is wonderful for India. If thousands of years of systematic social placement of certain sections of society below human dignity, is what you consider the best thing that can happen to India, hats off to your opinion.
Since you seem to have such obnoxious opinions and is certainly romancing with such thoughts , can you back your opinions with some proof, as you say, the proof is in the pudding. Say how many dalits in India will say that they enjoyed being positioned to clean crap or sew chappals or remove towel and stand aside when “Dora” or his family pass on the road or loved being bonded laborers for couple of generations. All my Dalit friends hate such concepts and feel sore about that. Or do you want more proof like in my college, Reddys and Chaudaries do not share common mess with Dalits. Even BCs wont share the mess with SC/ ST hostel block. Where Dalit Student Union(DSU) had to be formed to end the injustice.
Venkat,
You are in complete denial of history. I gave Tamilnadu as an example since you said it is all a British creation. As Vamsi points out Tamilnadu is very much a part of India. Buddhism which was founded in India is now completely marginalized with very few followers left. Perhaps all Buddhists converted back to Hinduism of their free will! Things you say like caste system is best for India is pure unadulterated unsubstantiated bullshit.if you want to say things like that please provide background research from neutral publications. Otherwise please post such illfounded opinions on your own blog or on other blogs that may welcome your views.
Sukumar
Thanks for your comments let me understand more- are you suggesting that it is possible to appeal to base emotions directly? Or do you think they use “carefully crafted” reasoning to do that?
People appeal to “reason” to incite the base emotions – in some of these cases, I believe it is the frontal cortex that works first and THEN the base emotions start smouldering; after that people find more reasons to keep it alive. People with credible and proven reasoning skills are known to be ‘volunteers ( or are they victims? )’ of such hate campaigns.
I guess its a question of at what point you stop critical reasoning.
Here is a funny line of reasoning::::There are several people that still believe Gandhi’s non-violence did not mean NO violence – the violence was there alright – it was just one sided (on the side of hate which was founded on the reasonable claim to land that they got by war).. there was still blood shed. so was there when partition happened when both sides lost their ‘reason’
…what is the difference? Could we have reasoned that, hey “the britishers have done us a world of good by bringing in discipline etc…let us let them lord over us”. No violence, right? If our stupid Rani of Jhansi and others had laid low, we would be the great british empire – infact, at the rate they were going, the world would have been united under the supreme British empire…wow, no violence – all peace.
It may seem like I’m overemphasizing violence – the only reason I do this is because we somehow are generally ok with people having ‘healthy’ debates about religion and other sensitive things…to me, thats funny. Intellectual aggression and sometimes even violent exchanges (intellectually) seem to be well tolerated – why?
One smal aside: what about violence against animals (cows, goats, chickens)? Believe me – It most certainly looks like hate if you are look at the blade coming down on your neck. Life is life. Can we start a ‘stop hating animals’ campaign?
It is possible that violence and physical aggression will continue as the ‘boundaries’ are in individuals – there is no universal/societal benchmark.
My point is, critical reasoning is contextual. And people can and do use reason to incite hate which can breed violence
I dont think I have missed Abduls’ point – I was merely trying to state that there is a reason (:-)) why history will continue to repeat itself. Its a pattern – and at its base lies the Frontal Cortex.
Surendar,
I am saying that it is quite easy to target basal emotions and that is exactly what the fundamentalists do. I would urge you to read up some on neuroscience. It is well known that Amygdalic responses occur first and there are reasons why Amygdala has to fire first – for us to improve our odds of survival. It is also well known that we can use our frontal cortex which fires later to suppress the Amygdalic response if need be. This is not my speculation, this is scientific reality.
As i said before, inciting fears and prejudices is what the fundamentalists do and they do that by appealing to our basal emotions. If they start appealing to our reasoning abilities, they will never win that battle. That is why they will never try that. I would urge you to show me a hate campaign that appeals to our reasoning ability.
Any kind of abuse even if be intellectual is not okay. Healthy debates where we are exchanging opinions freely like we are doing now is definitely okay. I don’t see how that is related to our need to avoid violence? With violence innocent people get hurt and/or die. That is definitely not acceptable. Pure and Simple.
As for animals, i think that is a digression from the core topic of chasms between human beings. I am sure you know that there are several organizations like PETA, SPCA, Blue Cross, World Wildlife Fund etc that are working for the betterment of animals.
History repeats itself simply due to the fact that we don’t learn from history. We don’t learn because we are not applying our reasoning faculties to understand what happened.
/**
If thousands of years of systematic social placement of certain sections of society below human dignity, is what you consider the best thing that can happen to India, hats off to your opinion.
**/
This is totally baseless.. Its a mere allegation made without substantiation.. Even in the sukumar’s post on casteism, he could only provide substantiation only for about 200 years before.. That too it was very well clear that todays caste system was british creation and the caste system before britishers were of different kind..
Today, lakhs of brahmins were suffering well below the poverty line.. Thousands of brahmins in Delhi are reported to be cleaning toilets.. Arent they the new dalits of india? Arent they discriminated by the very same intellegentsia which claims to work for the dalits..
When numerous castes became the OBCs and dalits due to british domination, how can it be just convenientlly blamed on hinduism…
There are numerous communities who were once powerful and ruling class, now became the most backward people, because of islamic invasion and british invasion.. but that doesnt matter.. what i know is to just throw allegations and accusations..
Also, since i used the word Islamic, let me be branded as Communal..
I am not restarting another debate.. But, since this post is about building bridges and learning form history, i wonder, how could one learn from history without actually knowing it..
Response to the following comment..
http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/10/01/do-bridges-matter-anymore/#comment-5449
I could not understand why there is so much craze to denigrate ourselves.. The british enslaved us, exploited us, and did lot of evil things.. but i will never care about that.. what is important is that we are no better them..
If anything dirty happens in the west.. immediately look for any such thing happened in india.. how could india be better than them..
If some one involves in Incest there.. lets find how much incest happening here.. is there any statistics… no problem.. there might have numerous unreported one here..
Is there any statistics depicting thousands of rape cases in US.. lets find how much cases here in india.. if it were just short of the mark, lets say there are numerous unreported one.. how can we better than them.. no way..
Is this what we learn from our history..
1000s of Brahmins are cleaning toilets – Are they doing it because they are born as Brahmins? Or are they doing because they did not get any job. I know a Kshatriya family who run printing press, the guy whose great great grand father is a local cheftian was composing blocks for wedding invitations. Should I feel sorry for someone doing whatever that person had chosen as business/ profession.
Senthil, something I never understand, how could we be so great if we dont be self-critical? We feel proud of so many achievements in business in the last decade. We feel that we are finally ‘in’. At the same time, we do feel the social unrest disturbing. The root of such things could be hate that is not initiated by your beloved hindutvavaadis, but they certainly play their part and instigate hate further.
You did accept that before British there are caste based, religion based divisions as sukumar pointed out. But you were unhappy that it doesnt go back to 2000 years. Is this correct? And that 200 years back before the British, the Jainism being wiped off by Hindu Rajas is OK with you? Or do you see it not an issue.
Vamsi,
Its an undeniable fact, that those brahmins of delhi were cleaning toilets because of largescale discrimination against them.. can we list out the numerous forms of discrimination meted out to the brahmins..? The numerous brahmins in tamilnadu were the victims of the Anti-Brahminism, followed by dravida kalagams.. but, what’s more intriguing is the extremely unfair defending of such anti-brahminism in the name of social justice..
Today, scores of brahmins, whose original home land is kumbakonam, thanjavur and other surrounding areas were driven to chennai.. Similarly, almost the entire brahmins of south tamilnadu, like tirunelveli, nagercoil, were also driven out, ..
Before the anti-brahminism, there were right mixture of people through out india.. There were brahmins in each and every village, along with numerous other castes..
But, what have we achieved by driving out the brahmins.. they were denied the basic rights to live in their ancestoral home land.. how many brahmins today, who long to settle in their own village, but unable to, because of extreme hostility and hatred towards them..
I am again stressing, that we never bothered to learn our history ourselves.. right from indpendence, we were reading what the imperialist britishers wrote for us.. Is it the right way of learning our history.. No nation can learn history from their oppressors.. but we afforded to..
Vamsi,
I missed one important point…
Why do you insist that caste divisions are evil?? do you have any idea on how the caste system was before the britishers came?
Or do you have any references or substantiations?
How many unrest happened because of caste during british period till independance?
I feel, we are yet to continue the debate on the caste system.. dont know if this post is the right one..
Rajagopal Sukumar
Let me take one example of yours. You mentioned:
>>Buddhism which was founded in India is now completely marginalized with very few followers left. <<
It looks like you are blaming the majority Hindus for that! Can you spell out some reasons why Buddhism disappeared from India? I don’t anybody so far has been able to really figure out why? There are some theories, but there is no “the” answer.
But here you go blaming Hindus for it??
Please substantiate your argument or did you pluck it from the air?
Senthil,
Not again, who said that all Brahmins from Nagercoil, Tirunelveli driven out? That’s news to me, last year I went to those places all are fine and sound. I agree that agraharam now loosing Brahmin’s population and getting diversified. Brahmins wants to go out these towns to Chennai. Mumbai,Bangalore etc, for better opportunity and to upgrade their lifestyle, like any others, not because of they forced to go out. I know that RSS and other Hindu ideology are very strong in Nagercoil to protect any discrimination against Brahmins and any Hindu castes, having said that south Tamil Nadu district’s majority population is Christians. There, as far as, I know there is no thin red line between non-Brahmins and Brahmins. But there is some red line between Hindu ideology and Christian ideology, that too long time ago. Now they know how to live side by side with harmony and tolerance.
But sometimes either Hindu or Christian’s ideology step in each other to start big violence. I don’t know you aware of 1983 big violence between Hindus and Christians in Nagercoil and surrounding places, that too not between Brahmins Vs Christians, it was between Hindu ideology (RSS) Vs majority Christians ideology. I don’t know whether you born at that time, I was 8 years old and still I remember the Indian army patrolled our roads and streets(btw, this was the first major violence in South India that required Indian Army intervention). You are taking so much about RSS, but we know in and out of RSS, believe me those are not worth. They try to brainwash you that India will become Christian nation blah,blah…but the truth is Hindu religion is ocean and nobody can eliminate it’s existence from India. If you believe what they are saying, sorry I can’t help you, you have to decide your own kismet.
India is secularism and each person can choose his/her religion. There is no forced conversion happening in India, at least based on my hometown (where 60% population are Christians) experience, they try to preach their religion very hard, some of other religion folks want to try it out and wants to join any church as their wish. There is nothing wrong with that. Most of Hindus who was suppressed for long time, galvanize by Christianity’s equality principle, no caste system, I don’t see any issue with that.
Orissa and Karnataka should stop violence, other wise Central government will take over the power and army will be deployed to uproot whole ideology from there (both Christians and Hindus), like they did it in my home town, 25 years ago.
I am a brahmin from AP. I never, ever felt for a single moment any discrimination. Sometime I see that things are a bit easy socially. I have relatives in villages all around my town. They do have some hard times. That is because many of them used to be Karanam of the villages. Karaneekam, who will usually manage the accounts in Panchayats. If I remember correct, it was NTR who abolished the karaneekam. That made them lose the power (and along with that income). The other Brahmins are either temple priests or those who do vaideekam. They pretty much migrated to near by towns and cities.
When I was in my teens, I was a member of Akhila bharata brahmana samakhya. They lead a 5000 people demonstration in Nellore (in 1994) for betterment of community. AFAIK, it was just a political move by one Dr. Madhusudhana Sastry who wanted to get Congress(I) seat from Nellore by demonstrating his power. If I recollect, most of them around 95% of them, has solid middle-class economic status and they are demonstrating for what. What rights? In contrast with that if there is a demonstration of SC/STs, how many do you think will be in the same average economic status? If you can be honest to yourselves, you will know the answer for yourselves. I know Brahmins who go to gulf and work as laborers. I also know those who are in the highest levels. Both are my relatives. But they just followed their fate. No body were discriminated.
Those who could study, and did not even try to graduate (with same / similar opportunities other would probably become IAS also), are in real pathetic state. Those who relied on temple income, near my home town villages are living BPL and are in sorry state. But that is their responsibility and their fate. Nothing done by society.
Subba,
Let me not go deep in to heated discussion.. but i want to put forth some counter points to that
1. Do you say, nothing was done against brahmins in nagercoil? The brahmin’s main job revolved around temples. Arent they deprived of their traiditional duties.. Believe me, i went to kailasanathar temple in Utiramerur two years before. The brahmin priest just gets Rs. 500 while the HR&C officer gets 15,000 monthly.. We just enquired them, and learned that even that 500 was not given to that brahmin family for two years..
Is it not the worst discrimination that a brahmin family ever faced? What is the reason for this discrimination? Is it not the anti-brahminism, which made everyone ok with whatever done to brahmins.
Yes.. when they were neglected all forms of traditional opportunities in their home town, they migrated to other places. But this cannot be termed as something for greener pasture or any other thing..
Everyone knows.. a brahmin does not work in temple just for salary.. that is his life long dharma.. a religious brahmin can remain without food for days.. but temple duties is his eternal dharma.. but, centuries of continuous description, made them leave their dharma, which was considered as a sin ..
I came to know about a few IT professional, whose father inherited the rights to perform puja in some big temples.. and these IT professionals want to continue that tradition, after earning to secure their life..
2. You say india is secularism and there is no forced conversion happening in india.. I dont know what do you mean by forced conversion.. is physical force, the only thing considered as force.. Conversion itself is a brutal force.. when some one pressurises me to leave my tradition, culture and change my god, its also a force and violence..
when the brahmins were denied opportunities and virtually driven out, an empty vacuum was artificially created.. where the missionaries could fill up.. that’s what happened there..
3. you told about hindu ideology and christian ideology.. can we dwell deeper in to that..
what is hindu ideology.. they say our tradition, our culture is to be preserved.. conversion should not happen..
what is christian ideology.. they say jesus is the only true god.. all other gods are false.. the hindus are pagans and worship satan..
I leave it to the general readers, to decide where does the problem arises..
Please see the following link, to know what the christian missionaries are doing..
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main.asp?filename=ts013004shashi.asp&id=1
Vamsi,
Your statement is itself very contradictory..
If brahmins suffer from poverty, its their fate.. But if a dalit suffers, its brahminical aggression..
I do not understand your theory..
Why did NTR abolish karaneeyam.. why didnt he not care for those brahmins dependant on that profession… is it not a discrimination? is it not done, because, there was an environment created by anti-brahminism, that what ever one does to brahmin, no one will care or ask?
What is discrimination..? If we are passionate about a thing, and we are denied, it is discrimination.. when i have a means of living, and that living is snatched away, its discrimination..
From what you have described, many of your relatives are extremely discriminated.. eventhough temple duties are eternal dharma for many of the brahmin family, they were virtually not allowed to do that happily.. the government did all things to create a hostile environment for the brahmin community..
Now can we discuss who made policies in the government, and what made the government do that?
Senthil, is that what you understood from my post. I should make it clear.
Why should Karaneekam, a post for which salaries are paid from exchequer, be hereditary. What is revenue department for? Being from a Karanam family I wholeheartedly appreciate that move. Why should it be there. There is no privilege by birth in modern state. Since the basic point of difference is this, you cannot think beyond privilege by birth, I cannot, as secular Indian accept that, we will go back and forth without much progress and importantly not adding any value to this post.
And thanks again for sharing your wonderful thoughts. And many thanks for opening my eyes that we were extremely discriminated. I will never love to leave my career and go back to doing karaneekam in those hot sunny villages, measuring the fields, which a revenue department field person, can do better.
My relatives who are still striving in village are extremely thankful to the discrimination. All their junk land appreciated beyond their imagination. They are filthy rich now. May be your Dharma is helping them (if that consoles you)
Venkat,
I am not in the business of educating people who will not do their own basic research before writing comments. Please do your own research as to what happened to Buddhism in India. Open up a blog and write up what you find.
Senthil,
We have gone over all your points before on this blog. It is clear that you have no data to support your arguments other than rhetoric. And you keep arguing the same points over and over in circles. You do have a blog and you can respond to this post on your blog.
Vamsi/Subba,
thanks for jumping in. Let us not carry on with these conversation because this is the Nth time this is happening on this blog.
I would like to add one thing ,even though Casteism has existed for long time in India …but division is not that old…we have had kings of all communities who have ruled our country….
Going back to Nandas ( way back in circa 300 BC were shudras),they were followed by the kshyatriya kings the Maurya….Pallavas were or brahmin orgin ..And kings of various communities intermarried (may be for political reasons) ..so i dont agree that discrimnation has always existed ….
Karthik,
Not sure i agree. The fact that there are some shudra kings does not make it that there was no discrimination. To understand that discrimination is going on takes a lot of awareness of individual rights etc. It took the USofA, which is a leading country of the world today, to giving voting rights to women only in 1920. can we now argue that there is no discrimination of women going on because there were prominent women leaders before that? Unless we as a society understand what discrimination is and act against discrimination we will continue to discriminate.
Sorry for not mentioning it …but its a beautiful post Dr Fakhri ….But i dont agree to it in principal….as time and again its been proven(I may be wrong),bridges can only be built when both sides are on the same level….
Most instances….people may say that US and UK exlempify friendship but its USA who is the big brother and UK a little bro or may be a slave…i can give more examples like this…..
In our country or in any place ..as long as there is a minority the majority will always try to crush it…..We have seen it in Zimbabwe….we are seeing it in Pakistan.. to a certain extent in India too….
Sukumar ,
If induvidual discrimation was there then how can we have a king representing from the opressed community….We still dont have a Lady president or VP from USA who represents them…..But then way back when we had autocracy the king cud have done wonders with his powers….
If Casteism was a factor then we will not have representations of God in Hindu Scriptures…..
Krishna though born a Kshatriya was raised by a cowherd……who happens to be his dad’s friend…..Vyasa was the son of a shudra,..Then many of the supreme devotees are not necessarily brahmins…the Nayanmars where equally represented by all the 4 varnas….
But none these have happened post 17 century ..I mean u dont see saints from other communties…In case they do exist some link to a superior community is identified…so I feel division based on caste is a recent orgin…..It may or may not be of British orgin( I dont have citations for the same)
karthik
I think the other caste nayanmars or alwars were not treated the same way, were they? They were put through the same societal limitations – its just that, their supreme devotion stood out against odds – most of these saints’ bhakthi was not always recognized all through their lives – when the recognition came, they were seen as ‘adiyars’ not as shudras / vysyas/ Brahmins etc..they were seen as eqvt to god (unbound from the fabric of society).
The lord of udipi is supposed to face the back side because he had to turn to give darshan to Bhakta Kanakadas. Thirupanazwar was shooed away by the priest of srirangam and later per instruction from the lord, he came back to fetch him on his back. etc…
Karthik,
If you are convinced about the fact that there was no caste based discrimination pre-British, that is fine. If you want me to be convinced, i need data other than from mythology and what i call “trophy progress” – xyz Shudra became King or God and hence there couldn’t be discrimination. This is not sufficient for me. I am sorry.
When did i say that women are no longer discriminated since they got voting rights. In fact i am arguing otherwise just giving women voting rights doesn’t make them equal to men. If you used your line of thinking – since we have Condoleeza Rice and Carly Fiorina and Indra Nooyi women should be equal to men. That is what i call as the “trophy progress” argument – holding up some small set of examples and generalizing.
BTW, Surendar is right. If you go down the route of mythology – it is a slippery slope. For every Sudra who attained greatness i can show you atleast one that didn’t. As i said before, the fact that someone is being discriminated against is not easily understood. For instance, many people think that because India was a peaceful (which is debatable as well) country, there could not have been caste based discrimination. The peace was a negative peace with quite a bit discrimination which was not understood by the population that was being discriminated against. To think that it is all the British people who created all these divisions, allows us to continue on our merry ways discriminating and if pointed out, blame it on the British or whoever else is the favorite whipping boy.
Venkat’s inappropriate and inflammatory comments have been moderated out by Sukumar
Another inappropriate and inflammatory comment from Venkat moderated out by Sukumar
Venkat,
I have moderated your last two inappropriate/inflammatory comments out. Please refrain from posting inappropriate and inflammatory comments.
Abdul,
I loved your post. It is so true how very little we know even about those people who sit in the next cube at our workplace. Most people are just familiar strangers. Wonder why it takes such an effort to turn that familiarity into friendship and love.
Abdul – Great post. I loved this line – “Is it not noteworthy that during war, bridges are the first structures to be destroyed to prevent the movement of people and supplies?”
Politicians mislead the dumb & the willing. Take the “Human Chain” formed recently by the Tamil Nadu politicians to alleviate the plight of Sri Lankan Tamils. When was the last time a “Human Chain” helped?? And these bastards want us to stop thinking, hate the Sinhalese & believe that LTTE fights for the Tamils. The unthinking masses have already been hypnotized to believe all this. Why do they do this? Our politicos can’t love Velupillai Prabhakaran! As you rightly pointed out, they want to distract the people from focusing on the failures of the ruling party.
I call it the “Kakistocracy” – Rule of the worst. I rather like Soumya’s quote from the “Hithopadesa”. Bharathi Dasan echoed the same thought. Its funny how people who claim to follow his words (TN Politicos) stir hatred.
I believe in the inherent goodness & badness of people. There is a strong need within people to hate, to band against “others”. Enlightenment is rare – which is why The Buddha is a novelty. I also believe that the majority of people are dim bulbs. And when someone is stupid, they don’t reason their hatred out of their system. Rather, they channel it more & more.
I think culture is a great way to build bridges. Music. Movies. Painting. Food. Clothes. And travel. Nothing expands one’s minds like travel. We can’t expand our minds without building bridges here, there, everywhere.
I’m surprised that some people think history is not a teacher. Anything can be a teacher. It is the student that chooses the source to learn from.
BTW, the Rude Mr Venkat needs a brain transplant. Revisionist history is the surest sign of a feeble mind.
Abdul – A timely and well written post. Everyday it is depressing to see people being killed in the name of religion and hatred and getting provoked by the cheap tacics of petty politicians. Bridges are mute witnesses to the politics of hate. I am reminded of a recent Tamil movie where God comes down to earth and lives in a Chennai Mansion. To a question posed on putting an end to suffering, God says – “Why should I put an end to their suffering, these men will kill one another and put an end to their own lives?”
Excellent
Just came across this link on the state of brahmins.. this is in reply to vamsi’s comment..
http://rameshnaidoo.blogspot.com/2008/09/brahmins-in-india-have-become-minority.html
Thanks Priya (Raju). Since the publication of this post, Obama has won the US elections. Perhaps his winning itself is an example of a successful bridge.
I am talking about the contest and victory in the electoral race itself – the matter of his performance as a President a subject for discussion in later days. But there is not an iota of doubt that his victory has inspired hope and optimism around the world. We can begin to breathe now after the suffocation caused by several hawks over the last 8 years.
Thanks Priya.
Thanks Divya.
For profesional goals to be achieved at a work place amity, congeniality and friendliness are vital. If this becomes a lasting friendship, nothing like it.
With the passage of time if people manage to continue good relations beyond their offices too and that becomes a strong friendship great. Yes, but your point is taken, office space too is critical for certain kinds of bridges.
Abdul
Great post. The bridge analogy is wonderful. History has taught us a lot of things and is meant to teach people and illustrate from the past as to what has worked and what created doom..The saying is clear on the wall. “learn not to stereo type people based on groups/castes etc, avoid hatred and build bridges” and hopefully the world would be a better place to live!
Nice post Abdul. You have a pretty impressive thread going here, including some devil’s advocate. While you’ve captured the ethos pretty eloquently, I was slightly disappointed at the end to not see a plan on how you’d like to build these bridges. We are living in interesting times where zealots have hijacked society in the name of religion. I do agree that hate breeds terror. But isn’t it intense love that spawns hate of such proportions? It exists everywhere be it hindus, muslims, christians etc. All you need is one fanatic with the gift of gab to proselytize and fire up those emotions. The media further glorifies this by providing center stage for these fanatics. Human tragedy has become a commodity for the media to capitalize on to boost their viewership. Bridges we must build, and I look forward to your sequel on this.
Even a brooklyn bridge can be built easily again, compared with building bridges between hearts!!
Kudos for picking up such a sensible topic.
But I cannot fathom anyone even daring to take up such a task today in my home town….Hyderabad.
Hearts are torn asunder and people polarised beyond redemption.
What Gandhi achieved (unifying people) by sathyagraha, mainly fasting, these petty politicians have unmade today sadly using the same tool!!!
We are choosing to break the existing bridges, rather than build new ones….
Cheers Revathi for perceiving the sense and sensibility behind such a topic (or for the lack of it in the wider world, shall we say!)
Yes, we are all witness to the chaos galore in Andhra Pradesh today. Vamsi Poondla has contributed two extensive fine posts on the subject on this blog.
Regarding Gandhi, can one ever recover or re-create the Mahatmas. That is why they are called as such!
I am a believer in the Enlightenment tradition of a “common humanity.” Please see JFK’s quote at the start of this post to understand what that means in simple terms.
(i.e.) irrespective of the planetary divisions in terms of castes, creeds, races, ethnicities, genders, classes and what not the challenge of human life everywhere is the same.
Nothing exemplifies this better than the environmental challenges and all the debates that happenned around the Copenhagen summit and beyond !
Revathy,
/** What Gandhi achieved (unifying people) by sathyagraha, mainly fasting **/
If Gandhi had actually unified people, then why did partition happen? Gandhi was alive then..
Sukumar often asks for data, and i hope, i can expect the same for this statement..
Hi Sukumar,
I have come across your comments in another post too about vaishnavaites and shaivaites killing each other or how the hindus killed off the jains in Tamil Nadu.
I am very much interested in the history of Tamilnadu from 8th to 15th century.
I keep trawling the net, but i am not able to find lot of stuff about that period. (Maybe my search terms are not good)
Could you please give some references (books or websites) where i could find such material.
More specifically about the slaughter of jains in Tamil Nadu.
Thanks,
Sheela
Sheela,
You are taking up a tough subject for your research. The historical record is sparse. For example, there is a historical event that happened in Madurai in the 7th century AD where 8,000 jains were allegedly impaled (impaling is an ancient method of killing) (page 356 Romila Thapar’s Early India). Thapar goes on to say in the same page that this story is unlikely due to the large number of 8,000 being cited.
In the Peria Puranam (Saivite Holy Text), there are several references to Nayanmars fighting against the Jains.
The way i have tried to make sense of it is – jains and saivites/vaishnavites were fighting to establish their religion as superior using various methods – propaganda, conversions, mass conversions by convincing a king to embrace the faith and violence such as the madurai impalings. there also references to jains throwing the saivites in lime kilns (sunnambu kalvai in Tamil). So violence must have been used by both sides. Ultimately, the fact remains that there are no Jains (Or a few thousands left is what people think) left in Tamilnadu if you exclude the recent migrants from Gujarat. That means that whatever techniques the hindus used succeeded extremely well.
On the saiva/vaishnava fights also, the same kind of thing. Historical record can be sparse but you can pick up some pointers from the puranas and research them.
Additionally, there are also several instances of tolerance shown by the fighting religions. There have been Saiva kings who have erected Buddhist monuments (Rajaraja Chola and/or his son Rajendra Chola have done this). Emperor Ashoka has even left an rock edict which talks about why tolerance is important. Though he became Buddhist, he encouraged his citizens to tolerate other faiths. Emperor Akbar even tried to come up with a new amalgamated religion.
Indian kings have encouraged religions from other countries also – the famous story of Parsis in Gujarat, Jews in Kerala etc.
Good luck with your research.
Thanks Sukumar,
I will take a look at Romila Thapar’s book Early India.
So we have one instance of Hindus allegedly impaling 8000 jains which the author herself doubts to be true.
I was looking forward to more specific references.
In the periya puranam which is the history (more like hagiography) of the 63 nayanmars, it says that nayanmars in particular and saivaites in general had to face lot of hostility from the jains because of their faith. The jains are shown to have the upper hand as the kings of that time were jains. Tirunavukkarasar was subjected to the hot lime kiln treatment, poisoning and as well as getting trampled by elephant treatment. He is said to have escaped by singing hymns to Shiva.
The jains i guess have not written their side about the happenings of 7th to 9th century. Maybe they had written it but did not publicise it
.
State patronage seemed to be have been very important for the sustainment of Jainism in Tamil nadu because being a non theistic religion they did not get any help from the gods. I guess the Bakthi movement was a reaction against the rigidity imposed by the jains.
But i am curious about the patronage Vaishnavaism seemed to be gotten around that time because the kings of that time were staunch saivaites. But vaishnavaism flourished in Tamil Nadu during the same time with huge temples being built and maintained at that time. This is not possible without the support of the state.
Alwars and Nayanmars lived around the same time and were sort of in competition for the hearts and minds of the same set of people.
I think i will keep searching.
Thanks again for your response.