Thirukadaiyur – A fascinating super efficient shared services model
Thirukadaiyur – A fascinating super efficient shared services modelUpdated June 9, 2008: Rachel Laudan linked to this post and would like more information on how this whole thing works? I will try to find out. Thanks Rachel. On your question on private facility vs. temple. The 100+ events i mentioned happen in a temple on a shared services model. As Ganesh points out, there is also an option to do the whole event in a private facility in the same city without the shared services.
Prolog
On friday, my uncle celebrated his 60th birthday at Thirukadaiyur, a small temple town near Kumbakonam. For the benefit of non-Hindus reading this post, 60th birthday and 80th birthday are celebrated slightly differently. During these 2 events, the man exchanges his marriage vows again with his wife. The place Thirukadaiyur is special because legend has it that Markandeyan achieved immortality here. Additionally, Abirami Battar’s devotion made Goddess Abirami convert a new moon day into a full moon day. The temple at which these events took place is the Amirthakadeswarar Temple (Shiva Temple) and is the place where the birthday events are conducted. My Uncle’s 60th birthday event was done near Goddess Abirami’s sanctum sanctorum. Even some Christians celebrate their 60th/80th birthdays here!
Shared Services Model
Over 100 such events take place in a single day in this temple. If you know the typical scale and size of a Hindu wedding, you can understand the scale required for conducting 100 of them simultaneously. To give everyone a feel, each event attracts 100-200 people on an average. And some of the celebrations are 2 day events like my uncle’s. Each family is allocated a small area where the rituals are performed. One of my cousins remarked about the shared services model being adopted here and that is when i started taking note of the various things going on and i became fascinated by the efficiency.
Per the Hindu system, each event has a certain auspicious period – approximately 1 hour during which the exchanging of the vows happen. Immediately preceding and succeeding it are various rituals like elephant worship, cow worship, ritual baths for the couple etc. In total, all the rituals take around 3-4 hours. There is only one elephant, only one cow, only one music band, only a few videographers and photographers and only a few priests. But somehow, magically, all of these services are coordinated with clock work precision moving between the various families without a single hitch.
Interestingly, even the food arrangements are shared. When we went to have the lunch, we found ourselves eating with the attendees of some other family’s events. I was even a bit worried about whether we are eating at the right place! For the eco-conscious, this system probably avoids the large quantities of food typically wasted during Hindu weddings.
No advance no nothing
My Uncle’s daughters who live in Hyderabad, arranged the whole thing by talking to the master contractor via the phone. They didn’t have to send any advance or anything like that. They told me that, even after the event, nobody called them for the payment etc as is typically expected. They went on their own to the Master Contractor and settled the accounts. The whole system works on trust and works quite admirably.
Nary a news item
For this post, I tried to find some news article on Thirukadaiyur and i couldn’t find a pip-squeak on this unique enterprise. As my cousin remarked, this could easily become a case study in some B-School, if someone did a serious analysis.
Epilog
Have any of you come across such things in other places in India? or elsewhere in the world?
Sukumar,
My brother arranged my father’s 60th birthday celebration at Thirukadaiyur and this was about 10 years back. This was also a 2 day affair. Unfortunately I could not attend it
.
From the photos, I do not think their celebration was at a temple, but at a home. This makes me believe that it is the place itself that is special and not any temple per se in Thirukadaiyur.
Even 10 years back, my family was very impressed with arrangements, including accommodation and food for over 100 folks and the ceremony itself.
At that time, my brother made all the travel arrangements from Chennai to Thirukadaiyur. I guess there is an offshoot business here for the entrepreneurial one – “Thirukadaiyur planner” – planning and arranging the whole ceremony including travel, travel food and coordinating with the contractors at Thirukadaiyur.
In India, Is’nt Guruvayoor similar for new borns?
Ganesh
Sukumar,
I guess my sister’s marriage @ another temple near kumbakonam was also one such an event I can recollect.. Not the Abirami amman temple though..
Very interesting Sukumar. From what you explained, this looks like much more personalized than the community weddings that are conduced by various groups like TTD etc.
Sukumar – Didn’t you also mention that the local hotels were also a part of this? Goes to show that collaboration works very well for everyone involved.
Similarly, in Guruvayoor, we celebrated my son’s “first solid feed” ceremony (‘Annaprasam’ in Malayalam). Though we are Tamil, my mother insisted in doing this ceremony.
We went on an extremely auspicious day, it was Jan 19, 2008 – a saturday, star of the day was Rohini (Lord Krishna’s birth star), Sabarimala season, a subha muhurtham day…. It was reported that 3.5lakhs people had worshipped between 6am to 12pm. We waited for 2 hrs in the queue to get a sight of Guruvayoorappan. But ‘Annaprasam’ was done in 10 minutes. While buying ticket for Annaprasam, we were given a dhothi for the child.; the child has to wear dhothi while Annaprasam. 10 to 15 of the children were made to sit in seperate “manai” – a short wooden stool used for any rituals by Hindus – and the food was served in plantain leaf, there was a payasam, a sweet, and rice. Father/ Grandfather/Eldest male member of the family sat on the “manai” with the child on his lap and fed it with “payasam” and then with rice.
There was also a pooja, proceudre was clearly explained, and photos were taken by the Devasthanam photographers and sent by post in a week’s time. Our long wait to see the lord was all forgotten by this short and simple procedure.
One problem with Guruvayoor temple is, they don’t have a special ticket for people who have with children (that too as naughty as mine!!!), all of us have to wait in the queue. Though there is a seperate queue for ladies, the wait gets longer in such special days.
Very nice post.. In our place, there is an ishwar temple at Kodumudi, which is very famous. During muhurtha season, there will scores of young wedding couples waiting for the knotting ceremony.. For each couple, there would be around 30 minutes, and immediately they have to vacate the place.
The entire area on that mandapam would be partitioned (Its just agreement, and no separators used), and many priests conduct the wedding..
There would only few people per wedding family attending this.
Many of the Ishwar temple is following the same.. There is a 2000 year old shiva temple near cauvery, in Mohanur, namakkal. Here also the marriage is conducted as a shared services.. The same for other ishwaran temples..
I have some few doubts..
Is this type of marriages done only in shiva temple or in all temples? Is vaishnavites temples also have the same model?
I personally remember my relative having his wedding in a murugan temple..
Thanks Ganesh. Your father’s 60th birthday seems to have followed a dedicated services model? I have been to one such – my father’s brother’s 60th bday which happened in the same place a long time ago (about 35 years ago). Maybe this shared services model is a recent phenomenon? You are right it is the place that is special, but the place gets its fame from the 2 events that i described in the prolog above. Looks like Rupika has answered your question around Guruvayur.
Thanks Ravindran. If your sister’s wedding followed a shared services model, then yes it counts. Please let us know how it was done?
Vamsi,
Thanks. Yes, i think you have hit it. This model gives personalization but at the same time most of the services are shared. I don’t know about TTD weddings? I assume these are mass weddings that take place simultaneously possibly without the personalization?
Thanks Priya. yes, i forgot to mention that. My cousins told me that as soon as they checked into the hotel, the master contractor knew about it. I guess it is a very closely knit network. When we landed at the temple, we could not locate my uncle’s event. I simply asked one of the priests mentioning my uncle’s name and he immediately pointed me in the right direction. I guess they have the facts on their fingertips which is an essential ingredient for coordinating so many tasks across so many events happening simultaneously.
Thanks Rupika for the update on Guruvayur. Sounds very interesting. But it sounds more like a group activity than an individually personalized one as Vamsi points out.
Thanks Senthil. I didn’t know this was a widely followed practice across so many temples. But it looks like from the examples you quote, these have restricted guest lists and possibly a simultaneously occurring mass wedding? In other words, no personalization and no support for a scalable guest list.
I think if you are asking about regular first-time weddings, i would guess that it happens in all temples both Shiva, Vishnu, Murugan, Amman etc. Why do you think it would happen only in Shiva and Murugan Temples?
Yes sukumar.. there are no personalization of the weddings that i described above.. its become commercial..
generally, the wedding ritual spans three days in our community and its non-brahminic.. a person who has lived a fulfilling life, is selected for conducting rituals… and now due to social changes many people look towards brahminic marriage, as this is easy to hold and not expensive..
I was asking about marriages conducted in such shared services model in other temples..
Senthil,
Regular weddings do span 3 days for the Brahmin community as well. These days it gets cut to 2 days. The 60th birthday and 80th birthdays which are also mini-weddings usually take 2 days in our community.
Let us see if someone else can answer your question on other temples.
@Senthil
I beg to differ on your comment “now due to social changes many people look towards brahminic marriage, as this is easy to hold and not expensive.” Brahmin weddings aint inexpensive/simple/short. Even now a shortened brahmin wedding last for 2 days. But earlier it would last upto five to seven days, because of the extensive rituals and poojas. Brahmin weddings are equally expensive because of more rituals and poojas. It would cost even more for the wedding alone, excluding food, dresses, and the marriage hall.
Have given a link for your reference.
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=ZrJB-MsbWvoC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=Brahmin+weddings+number+of+days&source=web&ots=XMONbVWEzR&sig=JsJQMBJGAxigqKVSKh43EI0px9U&hl=en#PPA132,M1
@Sukumar
Yepp “Annaprasam” @ Guruvayoor is a group activity, but marriages also happen there, guess they are individualized…
Interesting Post Sukumar….
But i have difference of opnion in Guruvayur .In guruvayur Choru unnu or Anna prashanam ceremony is not a group activity like Thirukadiuyur ,the logistics invloved are small and few unlike thirukadiyor…If i can compare that with something ..I would say its like head tonsureing in Tirupathi ..just bit bigger…..
But thirkadiyur logistics are mind boggling …I went for a 60 birthday same time last year and around 140 functions were held on the same day ……
This is a wonderful concept!
Very different from the lavish, extravagant (and sometimes wasteful) excercise that some Indian weddings often end up becoming! However, people who prefer a certain amount of privacy would find this a bit inconvinience.
Otherwise, it sounds great for the regular family occasions / rituals!
Senthil
In india, all weddings whether it is north indian\south indian, brahmin\non brahmin, hindu\muslim\christian were elaborate and extravagant and lasted from 3 days to a week. Upto the 70-80s, families were living together and they would see this as an occasion to get together with families living in nearby villages or towns, especially in villages everyone were invited so it was a grand saga.Then over time due to the modern lifestyle, time constraints and budgetry concerns the wedding became a 1-2day event and slowly deterioting to a 2-3 hour event. Since you have visited lots of villages you definitely would have seen lots of wedding in different communities of people.
To me growing up in india with its rich cultural diversity, i had seen a lot of wedding in different traditions,religions and different beliefs – the fact that people from every religion\tradition give the same equal importance to wedding is inevitable. No wedding is either easy or less expensive.I think you would agree on this.
Sukumar
These group wedding are happening in lots of temples across india, given the fact that there is always the less affordable people in india and some families due to religious belief want to get the wedding done in the temple and have a dinner\reception somewhere else.The wedding conducted in some temples are really well organized,but it gets choatic when the day chosen is very auspicious and everything gets messed up. Same happens in other events like child ear piercing,head shaving etc. has mentioned by Karthik, it is a big saga by itself. I have also heard a lot about Thirukadaiyur from friends who went for their parents 60th. Thanks for writing about it.
-Sujatha
Thanks Karthik. You are right. I think that is the point that people are missing when we compare it to mass weddings, mass anna prasanam etc. 140 events on the same day is mighty tough.
Thanks Amit. You are right, there is a bit of a compromise one needs to make with respect to privacy. But when one decides to have the event in a temple, the expectation of privacy is not there i guess? Also, every family gets their own small area inside the temple, where other people won’t come because they are all busy with their own events. Due to this, the loss of privacy is not such a big problem.
Sujatha,
Thanks. you are right, every community in India spends a lot on weddings. I have seen weddings wipe out the entire lifetime savings of families (typically the girl’s side), not to speak of the colossal waste of food that is typical. I am glad we are becoming more pragmatic and cutting down the duration of the wedding to the extent possible.
Typically on the group wedding front, what i have come across is, what i would call mass weddings. N number of couples tie the thaali exactly at the same time and all the families attending are served food at the sametime. The difference in Thirukadaiyur is that, you have your own time slot and everything is done for you and your family in a separate area. Only the food is served in a house near the temple, where guests from some other families’ event may also be eating with you.
Does that make sense? Not sure this distinction has come out correctly in the post.
Sukumar
In mass weddings i agree with you the situation is worse but even the individual marriages arranged to happen in temples with their own small space in the temple with individual prohit conducting the ceremony for their wedding is similar to thirukadaiyur. Lots of hindu temples do have this happening on a regular basis, some also have food arrangements in the temple itself. I have seen a wedding of a friend happen in the temple,followed by reception in a seperate hall. These weddings also get choatic when chosen to happen on an auspicious day. As Senthil has mentioned earlier it happens so quickly because of the time slot given for it and the next wedding group waiting for the spot.
If Thirukadaiyur temple is able to conduct 140 weddings in one day that is definitely a massive shared service model. Definitely needs to be appreciated.
Thanks for the clarification Sujatha. I take it that shared services models for weddings exist in other temples also, but Thirukadaiyur steals the show because of the massive scale. Can i put it that way? Overall cooperative models are very interesting to me. I think cooperative models suit India better and may help us avoid the high consumption/unsustainable development model that the West has followed.
Rupika.. Thanks for the reference.. I havent seen any brahmin wedding so far.. (except in films).
By brahminic wedding, i was referring to wedding presided over by a brahmin priest ..
Sujatha.. your reply is very enlightening.. I fully agree with you…
I asked my grandma about the weddings earlier.. she told, for my mother’s wedding, its held in her home itself. All our relatives had taken up different responsibility and conduct the event.. On those days, everyone had the time to spare, and weddings are usually a cherished event in the small villages.. This type of community support made this long wedding ritual easy to manage..
But two years before my uncle got married, but the event was at most a 4 to 5 hour.. Started at morning 5 AM, the sanskrit mantras chanted by the priest at ishwar temple, and completed before 6 am.. then reception and then a breakfast.. couple left by 11 AM and hall closed by 2 pm..
the same for my cousin sister too..
But the weddings in some other communities are still grand.. In my village, the marriage ceremony of some of the communities, would require taking up the bride and groom around the village, and then finally end in temple.. these will all happen with beating of drums..
In the Aasari community, it will span some rituals similar to some brahminic one.. they erect a homam, and perform some rituals.. the next day, the mangalyam would be tied..
Sukumar,
one distinguished feature in such events like thirukadiyur is everything is decentralised, and the crowd is self-regulating.. Since the everyone has a participative role, the events takes place appropriately without anyone commanding.. Even if one lags, the neighbouring person will remind.. because everyone knows well what is to happen next..
In one of the wedding i observed.. the man presiding over the wedding, just spells out what he wants, and the persons surrounding it will pass on the information to their next loudly.. and the communication reaches all, and some one will come forward and provide the needed thing..
weddings at temples, although done in a crowd is a personal one. But mass weddings are conducted under the head of some one, and where everyone ties the knot at the same time.. the former one is self-managing, distributed, while the later one is controlled and centralised.
But on the day I visited Guruvayoor, there would’ve been atleast 100 + chorunnu/annaprasam… The whole ritual lasts for just 10 minutes. Probably that should’ve been a very auspicious day, hence the crowd and mass annaprasams.
Thanks Senthil. I don’t know enough about the mechanics of the thirukadaiyur events to say if it is decentralized or not. Definitely an interesting possibility.
Rupika, thanks. 100+ annaprasanam is quite big.
interesting post…this shows we also believe in change. but dont know how and where, even we can changes in marriages like this, it is clearly a progressive development.
Thanks Balaji. You are right, we need to start somewhere.
Nice post Sukumar. I have never visited Thirukadaiyur. It is hard to imagine how a ceremony as chaotic as an Indian wedding can be organized on a such a scale with such efficiency!!!
Thanks Archana. You are right it is hard to imagine. That is why i think some newspaper or magazine should do a more detailed story on it.
Sukumar,
I feel, such a decentralised shared services model is NOT possible in highly individualised society. Its only possible in tightly knit communities.
The idea of 60th birthday (kalyanam – wedding) away from home for Sumangali couples, it to have some rest, peace, and ensure all the folks – near and dear ones get together and occassion to remember and celebrate the long life and wish many more.
Contrary to beliefs, even with whatever old age (young nowadays) they get rid of the illness and feel young.
So if it happens (whatever caste they may be) that is the place to visit.
Senthil,
Not sure i agree. First of all, they may not even need such a shared services model. There are several cooperatives in the first world countries.
Vijayashankar,
Thanks for visiting. yes, it is a nice feeling to see the oldies celebrating.
Recently my dad’s shashtiabthapoorthy (60th birthday) was arranged and done at THirukadayur. As you have mentioned, the shared services model seems to be demonstrated at its best. Everything was done on time, though there was only one elephant, one cow, few photographers and things like that. Even the archanai and dharshan was good at the Abirami Sannithi..No pushing crowds like the usual big temples. Though many other weddings and events happen there parallely none seem to wait for the other..say for a person he/she will feel personally attended well.
I strongly recommend this place for such milestone celebrations in the family.
Contact details for arrangements: Amirthakadeshwara gurukkal
Sannathi street , thirukadayur – 609311
04364 – 287516, 287646, 287474
Thanks Sandhya for stopping by and corroborating our post. Thanks also for the contact info. I am sure readers will find that useful.
HI Guys,
can some one pls give me some info abot the 60th b day celebrations at the thirukadayoor temple ….
who would be the best person to contact, is there an online booking system etc etc
thx tons
rethika ravi
Rethika,
thanks for stopping by. A previous commenter Sandhya had given some contact info that may be of use to you:
Contact details for arrangements: Amirthakadeshwara gurukkal
Sannathi street , thirukadayur – 609311
Phone – 04364 – 287516, 287646, 287474
BTW, i doubt they will have an online system.
hai ,
can anyone share any photos too that were taken during the functions and the cost you had incured (cleraly stating the breakup also). We are planning to go there for our parents 60th bday celebrations. How long before should we make a contact there to get the arrangements done.. would they also arrange for costs. my mail id is happy21@rediffmail.com
Anantharaman,
I will put you in touch with my cousins. They may be able to help you.
Please post the complete address of the temple and the executive officer.
This will be useful for many.
Hi Sukumar,
this was a great post.. very interesting read and very useful, esp since I am trying to find more info on the shashti aptha purthi pooja for my dad. The contact info posted by Sandhya here is exactly what I was looking for. so thx to her. I am also trying to find out more about the costs involved and other details like how far ahead we need to book etc. Could you kindly help me get in touch with someone who would be able to provide some of this info. my id is s.peru1@gmail.com
many thanks for your help and for this wonderful post.
Hi Sukumar, Thanks for a very informative post. I was looking for info on conducting the shastiabthapoorthi for my parents and found your post quite helpful. Thanks in special to Sandhya for providing the contact nos. Can anyone also please give me details of the likely cost for the function,food and stay? also the number of the main contractor who will arrange for all this? Many thanks for all th info and help. my mail id write2deepav@gmail.com
Fantastic.. Agile / Extrememe programming in real life. I am amazed.
Thanks Perumal, Deepa and Kumaran. Since this is a very old thread, i have not been paying attention. Let me see if i can find some more information.
Hi everyone,
Thirukadayoor from what i here is the most spl place to celebrate 60th and 80th bday esp for brahmins …
I recently found some info abt all of the ” events ” there and thought it would be good to share it with you folks!!!
I believe there are lot of small mandapams there and once you give them the dates they decide where you will positioned (for eg either opp the shivan sanidhi or amman sanidhi etc etc) and then the main gurukal there will give all details ( you are looking at a cost of close to 20,000 rupees) including vadhyar fees, flowers, mandapam fees etc etc …
but one thing you need to be careful ( no offence here folks – this is what i have heard) if you are an iyer or iyangar, and are very particular that a gurukal from one of these streams does the whole ceremony then you have to look around for them as i have heard that some gurukal there are not brahmins …
So that option is very subjective – again did not mean any offence!!! this is left upto each family to decide …
rethika ravi
Thanks Rethika for the additional information. Does the 20,000 rupees cover food/lodging for the guests? Is there any guesstimate of that X Rs. Per Guest type of thing?
hi sukumar,
Well there is lot of cottages in and around which can accomodate upto 11 people in one room … but i think the food does not come under this 20,000 rupees!!!
rethika ravi
Thanks Rethika. I am talking to my cousins to obtain more info on the financial front and i will post it here in the next few days.
I was looking for info on conducting the shastiabthapoorthi for my parents and found your post quite helpful. Thanks in special to Sandhya for providing the contact nos. Can anyone also please give me details of the likely cost for the function,food and stay? also the number of the main contractor who will arrange for all this? Many thanks for all th info and help.
and i want to know the formalties donw there
Hi Raja
The cost depends on how elaborate or simple you want to have the rituals/ceremonies.
Like though its usually a 2-day function, we opted only for 1 day function i.e we did not do the rudra – ekadashi ritual on the previous day. The charges will vary based on the rituals.
Since ours was 1 day function, we reached thirukadayur only on the previous night just in time for dinner.
Please contact the phone number what i have mentioned in the site. The number belongs to one of the main Gurukkal of that temple. His name is Amirthakadeshwara Gurukkal.
Once you decide on how you want to celebrate, you can call this number. They ll give you in detail about the charges/timings roughly. They will help in doing all arrangements including stay, food etc
can anyone say whats the importance of celebrating 60th bday