The Real History of India Part 9 - One of Islam’s delectable contributions
Updated Apr 15,2008: Rachel Laudan was kind enough to respond to my email to say that she does not have much knowledge of Ethiopian to answer the question. She has however said she knows someone that might be able to answer. Stay tuned.
Prolog:
A key reason I started this series is to debunk ideas that threaten the very fabric of India’s great diverse culture. One of the ideas, that is oft repeated these days, is that the India of pre-moghul, pre-British time was pristine and rich. And that the British and Islamists have spoilt everything India had and have left an abjectly poor country in their wake.
I am 100% sure that the British and Islamist Kings did god-awful unspeakable things to India and its people. No one in their right mind will condone any type of invasion or oppression of this type. Not withstanding the fact that the India of today didn’t exist then. Therefore to speak of “Indian” as a valid term for the region pre-1947 is a historical flaw, but that is besides the point.
We, in India, do one of 2 things these days - either anything that the invaders brought is worthless or the idea is a Hindu idea. The Islamists and the British fall under the former category, whereas Buddha and Mahavira and Parsvanath fall under the latter category. This is how our history is being distorted for political reasons. I would not be this upset, if i didn’t realize that the youth of this country are being fed this poison and they are lapping it up. A culture that is known for its tolerance is quickly becoming bigoted and that is extremely scary.
Roots of North Indian Cuisine
Some background for non-Indian readers - most often, when we come across an Indian restaurant abroad, it serves North Indian cuisine. With the rise of the software industry which is dominated by South Indians, one does find South Indian fare these days. But they are still quite rare.
Myself and Priya Raju love Ethiopian cuisine. Anyone that has had both Indian and Ethiopian food will easily attest to the fact that the spices are quite similar. We used to wonder how this similarity came about, but we could not find the answer. We were also confused by how far Ethiopia is from India, both culturally and geographically.
Couple of days back, I came across this brilliant article by Rachel Laudan that traces the roots of the Mexican Mole. Again, the similarities of Mole to Indian curry is unmistakeable. But then how did this happen? Mexico is so far away from India that anyone connecting these 2 cuisines will be met with a loud snicker. Per Laudan, Octavia Paz, Nobel Laureate and erstwhile Ambassador to India from Mexico, tried to do just that.
Laudan continues on and proves that the Mexican Mole is indeed connected to Indian curry but the connection happened through Persia! When Babur came to India, he brought the cuisine with him which has mesmerized Indians since then. The sherbets, the pilafs (pulao) and the tandoor are all through this Babur connection. And it went to Mexico from Spain which had acquired the cuisine through the Islamic connection as well.
An excerpt from the article:
The influential Persian culinary tradition is yet to be studied in detail. When the Abbasid dynasty established its capital in Baghdad in the eighth century, the Islamic world was able to draw on a sophisticated Persian culinary tradition that stretched back a millennium. The ancient Greeks had been awed by the luxurious cuisine of the Persian emperors Darius and Cyrus. Successive dynasties had continued to refine the cuisine that became the model for fine dining throughout the Islamic world. After the Mongols destroyed Baghdad in the first half of the 13th century, the center of Persian culture and its cuisine shifted back to the Persian heartland. It was here that the Moghuls learned the style of cooking that they took with them to northern India.
If this is not a signal contribution of the Islamists, what is?
The Ethiopian Connection
As for Ethiopian, we still don’t know the answer. But my guess is that it is also from the same Islamic influence. Interestingly, the Ethiopians call their curry powder Berbere. Here is another excerpt from the same Laudan article:
One of the most important was the Iberian Peninsula, whose southern two-thirds came under Arab rule in the eighth century. Watered by five rivers and greener than either their arid homelands or the other lands they had conquered, al-Andalus, as Muslim Spain was called, held out to the Arab and Berber settlers the promise of being a culinary paradise on earth.
Notice the phrase Berber settlers in the last line? Maybe this is why the Ethiopians call it Berbere? Wonder if Rachel Laudan knows the answer. BTW, Rachel Laudan has a blog if you want to read more.
Epilog:
The next one we will tackle is the idea that the evil caste system is a creation of the British! One of the main citations that is used for this idea is, the Gandhian Scholar, Dharampal’s works. Are there any other reliable citations that prove that the caste system is a British creation? If any of you know, please let me know.
Your post made sense to me Sukumar because I could relate to it. I myself have known a couple of friends who have an extreme view of Islamists. They think all Muslims are enemies. It’s very sad to know that young, educated people have very biased views. I would not blame the people involved for such behavior. It’s probably got to do more with the kind of information spread out by politicians, media, distorted history so on.
Before we meet a person, we all have prejudices against any religion or race. But once we interact with people we come to know how wrong our prejudices are. There should be more such awareness among everyone. Your posts indeed help in keeping an open mind.
A few weeks back, we had been to a shop to buy some provisions. The lady(owner of the shop) was so sweet and friendly. We asked her if she was Indian, she said she was a Pakistani but her parents were from Punjab who moved to Pakistan after the partition. It was the first time in my life I was meeting and talking to a Pakistani. It removed a lot of prejudices I had about Pakistan and its people. When one meeting can lead to so much clarity, I feel what the world needs now is “interaction” among various groups of people. This would lead to more tolerance among people.
I will read Rachel Laudan’s article in more detail. Very interesting to know about the Mughal connection to food. I never knew Ethiopian food tasted very similar to Indian.
Thanks Saraswathi. You are right, it is not that much a fault of the people as it is of the demagogues that spread such hatred about Islamists and other minorities.
And you are absolutely right, we all need to mingle with each other more with an open mind to break down the barriers. Well said.
Look forward to your comments after reading the Laudan article.
Sukumar,
I just briefed through the article by Laudan. The first thing that striked me was, during making some chutneys or curry’s my mom used to add a little Jaggery to the dish to compensate for the spicy taste. I found a similar thing happening when they made mole. They added “chocolate” to compensate for the spicy taste. /*but in fact not all moles contain chocolate and even those that do use it in small quantities to balance the flavor of the other spices.*/
/*The Muslims also introduced rice for fine pilafs,sugar for drinks and sweets, saffron to add aroma and color to their dishes*/
Wow, this is very interesting. Especially the use of sugar for sweets. Ok one doubt here, is the use of jaggery in sweets a very indian thing?
There is lot of geography involved in the article. I would have to re-read it to get a good understanding.
Saraswathi,
Thanks. Adding jaggery is an interesting thing. In fact, many indian cuisines add sugar to spicy dishes. Kannadigas and Gujarathis do this quite a bit.
As for Sugar, there are a lot of claims like everything. But it appears Sugarcane was first cultivated in India and hence sugar was first made in India and then it went to other parts of the world and it may have made a comeback in the form of refined sugar with Babur!
Check this URL out for details. This site is a very authentic one, so we can probably trust their data.
http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodcandy.html#aboutsugar
Yes, Laudan’s article has a lot of things to learn.
I find your history fascinating, especially as you analyze it. Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words April.
Sukumar,
I could not agree on the following.
1. India did not exist on those days…
From ancient known history, India was formed right from Mauryan empire extending up to present day karnataka.. Later sunga empire and then gupta empire also held most of India.. Then later mughals ruled over the entire india..
It is from this historic background, that Britishers also viewed the whole land as single nation called India..
2. While conquering the world the britishers did not create “Government of Africa”.. rather they created individual nations like congo, rwanda etc.. Only in India, they they named the entire land as India.. (an example, where india remained culturally united)
3. As per official record of india, india is referred as “Bharatham”.. this indicates, that india is not just physical entity but also a cultural entity, which traces back to ancient history.. so the notion that pre-1947 india does not exists is baseless.
4. /*** One of the ideas, that is oft repeated these days, is that the India of pre-moghul, pre-British time was pristine and rich **/
Could you please clarify, whether you acknowledge your above quote or deny. Do you agree that india was full of riches before britishers, and mughals?
5. The university of Takshashila and Nalanda were completely destroyed by Muslim Invaders .. Scores of knowledge, and books are lost, few of which are preserved by tibetan buddhists till now.. Is this not the greatest injustice to human kind, because of the loss of invaluable knowledge accumulated over centuries? Prior to the muslim invaders, there were numerous wars, battles, kingdoms.. But, no one caused so much havoc and destruction on public institutions. I am mentioning this, because you wrote about some historic cuisines brought about..
6. The caste system (i would prefer to use Jaati) is a social distribution of responsibilities.. It is the british who brought their imperialistic and slave european society which made this jaati sytem degrade to this lowest level..
Dharampal books are not from his imaginary creations.. Rather, they are just compilation of British Archivals.. So a best resource for you would be to approach British Museum where all those archivals are kept.
The following link would give more details on various research going on in ancient indian sciences and society.
http://infinityfoundation.com/index.shtml
On caste system and in detail, how indian society acquired British class system, and the purpose of british in dealing with indian castes.. its a well documented one, going deep in to many details..
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/h_es/h_es_hobso_caste_frameset.htm
First, applause for your analysis of the Indian tendency to look for an Golden Age; that pre-dated the Delhi Sultanat. I also agree with you about the lack of information among youth but also an entire generation of parents - whose only understanding of history is anecdotal. Finally, a culture of promoting sciences and engineering means that you will still meet an occasional IIT Prof who claims that all Physics can be found in the Vedas. I am all for a good discussion on Theology - but there is really no meeting ground here.
Secondly, on your query about the caste system and the British. While the caste system is definitely a Hindu tradition; the British did have an impact in the concretisation of caste. The Census of India, an attempt by the British to understand their new colony - led to a fixed classification of caste - erasing whatever little fluidity there was in the caste system. Again, please do not interpret this to mean that our colonisers were responsible for the caste system.
If you need more details, do mail me. Though I will have to do some background research - have been out of school for nearly five years now!
Thanks.
Ethiopian spices can deft have indian orgin …
One Ethiopia has traded with ancient India ..and two Pandyan embassy to rome speaks about 4 emperors….one could be Ethiopia,egypt ,persia and greece….but this is my speculation..
But a great write up any way…
Karthik,
Thanks. What are the dates for these events? Rome was sacked in the 4th century AD. India i think was always known for spices like pepper which is what made Vasco Da Gama and Columbus and others search for a sea route to India.
If we need to prove that current day Ethiopian came from Indian (it is possible) post Babur’s time, we need to establish a trade link between Ethiopia and India post-Babur, right? The reason i said post Babur is because per Laudan’s research the Indian curry powder which is essential in North Indian cuisine came with babur and didn’t exist before that.
Aditya,
Thanks for the kind words. You are right. I am sure the British leverage the caste system to their advantage and possibly made it worse than what it was. Again as you say, i don’t see how that absolves us of creating the evil caste system in the first place.
If you have any citations for the British impact on the caste system, please send them to me. The Infinityfoundation article link Senthil provides above is a good one in that direction.
Senthil,
Thanks for the detailed comment.
1,2,3. I agree with you on your general philosophy about India’s cultural identity pre-1947. The reason i wrote those lines is because we are misleading today’s youth into believing that there was a geographic identity as well which is not true. The British at the height of their power controlled about 60% of India. Ashoka who is the only one who can lay claim to the maximum portion of India under one king, did not control the chera,chola,pandya empires which covered Kerala and Tamilnadu. Hope that is clear.
4. It is not clear to me how rich India was pre-islamic, pre-british. Are there any citations?
5. Here is where i would advise some research. Taxila was destroyed in the 5th century AD even before Islam was founded! How could the Muslims have destroyed Taxila when they didn’t exist at that time. Nalanda on the other hand was destroyed by a Muslim called Khilji but then that was the third time Nalanda was destroyed. Before that it was destroyed by Hindus - once by Mihirakula and the 2nd time by Gowdas. How come you don’t attack them but choose to attack only the Muslims. Is that because they are a convenient target? This is how misinformation is used to poison people’s minds about the minorities.
6. I never said Dharampal’s works are a fiction. In fact, i think his strategy is brilliant - taking data directly from the British reports of the state of India. I was only asking if there were other citations so that i can draw my conclusions accurately. I will report my findings on what was the caste system like pre-British and then we can decide. Thanks for the Infinityfoundation links. Those are useful.
7. Interestingly you have taken this whole post to be about some historical cuisine. That is really strange because this post is about THE cuisine. Anywhere you go and you eat Indian food, this is what you eat and that was introduced by Babur. The cuisine today goes by the name of Punjabi, Moghlai etc and the Indian curry is famous the world over. I am sure you have eaten this a gazillion times. It is surprising you would equate this to “some historical cuisine” that has been introduced?
Citations:
1. Nalanda destroyed 3 times - http://www.shashitharoor.com/articles/hindu/nalanda.php
2. Taxila destroyed in the 5th century AD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxila#History
hey -
i have a reference for you - was to lazy to look for more. Its an article by Nicholas Dirks, anthropologists at Columbia. Its not a website - but a pdf I got from JSTOR. Next time try Google Scholar for your research - and if you need some articles mail me.
Anyway - Dirks argues that colonial knowledge practices changed social classification. If you are interested I can mail you the doc - shall I use the same id from which I recieved the comments update?
Thanks Aditya. I was able to locate a few of Dirks working papers on Google Scholar thanks. I could not find the particular pDF you are referring to. If you can email it to me that will be great. Yes, you can send it to my gmail addr rsukumarATgmailDOTcom.
Here are a few links explaining the connection between Ethiopian and Indian food. It says even Ethiopian dress ‘Shamma’ is similar to Indian sarees. It also explains that this could be because of trading. Trade between Inida and Ethiopia began in the 6th century. Slaves (The Hapshis) were traded from Ethiopia to India, and spices from India were traded to the Middle East, Africa & Europe to UK. Probably that’s how the Indian cusine has an Ethiopian tinge?
These links briefs about the trade between Ethiopia and India -
http://www.ideamani.com/2005/08/food-connections-ethiopian-food.html
http://www.civicwebs.com/cwvlib/africa/ethiopia/pankhurst/ethiopia_across_red_sea_&_indian_ocean.htm
http://www.indianembassy.gov.et/FINAl_800by600/bilaateralrelation.htm
Hope this helps.
- Rupi
Rupika,
Thanks for the research. Interesting links. Unfortunately, all of them seem to be taking the approach - there has been trade contact between Ethiopia and India for several centuries, therefore the cuisine also is similar. I am not able to agree with that approach. India has had trade contacts with several countries so trade per se can’t be an explanation. If you look at one of the comments posted on the first article link you gave, that someone has talked about Sambusa which is like our Samosa which is actually an Indianized version of a similar thing made in the middle east. Given their much stronger connections to the middle east and the fact that it is much easier to goto Middle East from Ethiopia than to India (no need to cross a mighty ocean), my bet is on a common origin for Ethiopian and Indian from Islamic Medieval. Anyway, let us see if we hear back from Laudan.
Sukumar,
* For long, the entire land mass beyond river sindhu is termed as Hindustan (name of persian origin).. and the name is still in use.. So, even the geographical identity very well existed..
* India was wealthy from ancient times. The looting of somnath temple, and continuous invasion, all because
of its rich wealth. I found the following article on wealth of ancient india.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0254/is_/ai_13771842
Also, an account of the wealth of pre-British india is found below.
http://www.indianscience.org/essays/22-%20E–Gems%20&%20Minerals%20F.pdf
I would say, in some way, the wealth of india remained within india during mughals. But, the britishers looted or infact plundered almost the entire wealth to utter poverty.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/theme_7-corporations/article_904.jsp
http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/1857-some-history-some-propaganda/
An interesting blog on debt of britain to india..
http://www.kahany.com/writing/0997britishdebt.html
* I am wrong in including taxilla’a destruction here.. But, the nalanda was completely destroyed to its rumbles, by the muslim invader khilji. It was said, that he asked if there was any koran, before starting the destruction once for all. The previous two attack on nalanda was more of political. But, the third attack by khilji was aimed at destructing everything of the kafirs, and hence nothing was spared. So they are not convenient target.. but, the real oppressors, till now.. Please remember the direct action day, the partition of india out of their intolerance and hatred, the annihilation of Hindu Population in Pakistan from 10% to 1%, the destruction of Hindu population from 30% to mere 8% now.. These are all done by that very muslim society you are defending now. Even in India, the malabar massacres, marad massacres, to the kashmir genocide of 40,000 pandits, and 4 lakh refugees.. And not the least, the numerous bomb blasts, carried out till now.. These genocide of Hindus, are far greater than the genocide of Jews.
* I am glad, that you acknowledged dharampal’s works. In that book, dharampal says, he was NOT a historian. Also, it has to be noted, why his works was suppressed from public knowledge.
* I should have mentioned as History of cuisine rather than historical cuisine.
Sukumar,
There was heavy maritime trade even during 1st century.. The roman coins found in Karur districts, pudukkottai districts indicate this.. So there is every possibility of trade from Ethiopia.
Next is that the prime trading materials are the spices.. This spice trade happened, till arabs captured egypt..
The same could have been exported to north india and north west india too.. (i have little refernce over this)
india being exporter of spices could have used it in its own cuisines well..
Is it that entire North indian cuisines brought from persia? I heard about mughalai food varieties, indian food varieties, persian varietes etc. ( I dont have much idea of food varieties)..
Senthil,
1. I don’t agree with your geographic identity thing. And i have talked about this before. North Indians called anyone south of the Vindhyas as Madrasi. That is simply an ignorant mistake. That does not make South India a Madras geographic identity. Everyone needed names to refer to everyone else. Even today, we refer to the developed countries as the West. That does not mean there is a geographic identity called West. India as a country as it exists today did not exist. I already agreed that there is a cultural identity.
2. Thanks for the links on India’s wealth i will read them.
3. Well, you are just arguing what is called a technicality. It is clear that it was destroyed 3 times out of which 2 times by Hindus but you still want to defend your point. If you denounce the Hindus using the same vitriolic language you use for the muslim invaders, then i will support your condemnation of the muslim invaders. Think about this - when Mahatma Gandhi was assasinated by Godse, there was no backlash against Hindus or even Marathis, but when Indra Gandhi was assassinated by a Sikh, several innocent Sikhs were slaughtered. Why? The answer is simple - Xenophobia is easier to practice when there is an identifiable target especially when the target is a minority.
4. How come only the muslims are responsible for the partition? If anything the blame should fall on the British. And for your information an equal or more number of muslims were also killed by Hindus. What Pakistan did to the Hindus and what other countries do to the Hindus can be a matter of concern but it cannot be the basis for what we do with our minorities. Your argument is as ridiculous as the Kannadigas killing Tamil people in Bangalore because there is a cauvery water dispute.
5. And for your information, i am not trying to defend heinous acts committed by the muslims. I am merely trying to prevent making the entire muslim community as bad because of a few misguided muslims. I will even agree with you if you adopted the same standard for the Hindus. Make all Hindus responsible for heinous acts committed by Hindus and then i will agree. You can start with the destruction of Nalanda by the Hindus. We don’t need to go too far back.
6. Good point on Dharampal
7. I am glad you agree.
Senthil,
No one is denying that there was trade between Ethiopia and India. what we are trying to understand is why is there so much similarity in the cuisines. As i said before, merely proving that trade happened is not sufficient to prove that the cuisine went from here to there.
Yes India was an exporter of spices, but that doesn’t make us an automatic exporter of cuisines.
I don’t think you have understood the point about the cuisine at all and why it is a significant contribution. For your information, India has possibly 3-4 cuisines atleast in every state and union territory. that would make India’s cuisine list at 100-125. Now when we look at what is the most famous amongst them it is Punjabi/Mughlai (most resturants that serve north indian cuisines offer dishes from both cuisines). It is this Punjabi/Mughlai whose origin is from Babur’s time. And the curry powder which is a key ingredient also came via Babur. Hope that helps you understand the significance of this contribution. If this is still not clear, i would urge you to cast off your all-muslims-are-evil glasses, do some more reading up and you will then understand.
Very interesting perspective Sukumar. The world is a wonderful place with so much of fusion and blending of cultures and cuisine is no smaller aspect of any culture.
After coming US, I started making burritos. But I did not like the bland taste of them. So, I tried with pulav, shredded paneer, black beans with channa masala. It is a treat to eat…. Indo-mexican(or Texan) fusion is my most preferred items these days.
Vamsi
Thanks Vamsi. Yes, indeed, the world is a wonderful place with so much blending happening all the time. Loved your Fusion Burrito. Maybe you should publish the recipe. Is it your own?
Sukumar,
Since this post has some serious allegations against the Hindu Organizations, i chose to write in detail. Most of my content is related to the subject of the post ie contributions of islam.
* ————–
I agree that india did not exist as it existed today. But it essentially existed in a different political structure. The land and culture is the same, which was referenced as Hindusthan for more than 2000 years of time.
The Greater India, ie the government of India, was created after 1857 uprising itself, by the britishers. Again, the statement that there was no pre-1947 india existed is wrong.
*————–
/** when Mahatma Gandhi was assasinated by Godse, there was no backlash against Hindus or
even Marathis, but when Indra Gandhi was assassinated by a Sikh, several innocent Sikhs were
slaughtered. Why?
***/
This is interesting question. There was wide scale riots against Brahmins in Maharashtra by the congress men (NOT by Hindus), when Gandhi was killed. Next, the sikh massacre is also doen by Congress party, and NOT the Hindus. More than 4000 sikhs were massacred which was the worst genocide, that congress ever made. Rajiv gandhi justified this by his famous statement of “When big free fall….”
Yet, the congress was not booked. Those who involved in this massacre, like kamalnath, jagadish tytler are now awarded ministerial berth.
So, these riots happened in congress banner and hindus had no role in it.
On Godse:
————
Since godse is one of the tool to dump Hindu organisations, i would like to put forth some information.
Godse is NOT a serial killer or a criminal. He is a devout brahmin.
I would like to quote the words of justice Khosla below.
‘There was a deep silence when he ceased speaking. Many women were in tears and men
coughing and searching for their handkerchiefs… I have no doubt that had the audience of
the day been constituted into a jury and entrusted with the task of deciding Godse’s appeal,
they would have brought in a verdict of ‘not guilty’ by an overwhelming majority.’
source: http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jan/30arvind.htm
The entire text of Godse’s defence is available below.
http://ngodse.tripod.com/defense.htm
Other references:
http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/jan/29godse1.htm
http://www.india-today.com/itoday/03081998/cover2.html
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0214/india.godse.html
Destruction of Nalanda:
—————————
I made some study in to this nalanda destruction. In wikipedia, the other two destruction was not mentioned.
As i said earlier, the first two destructions was more of political.
Mihirakula pursued Narasimha gupta,as he refused to pay tribute, and drove him up to bay of bengal. On the way, he destroyed Nalanda and persecuted the buddhist monks. Later he was repulsed by the gupta army. Interestingly, Mihirakula is a outsider and belong to Hepthalites from Central Asia.
The second invasion was by Shashanka, a gauda king of Bengal. Harshavardhan suppressed the shaivites after he was converted to buddhism. Although, there was not much reference on shashanka attacking nalanda, as per wikipedia, it was said, that shashanka cut down the bodhi tree, and threw in to ganges.
The third destruction was by the muslim invader Khilji. WHile the former two were a clash of politico religious nature, which resulted because of buddhist infingement on other faiths, the third and final destruction was more of Muslim religious edict, where all kafirs are to be either converted or killed. It was the immense hatred for idols, that every muslim invaders took it as their life time role to destroy temples and buddhist monastaries, to its rubbles.
References:
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-ENG/heras.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shashanka
After Jainism, Budhism mixed religion with politics, and infringed on other cultures. This is the main reason, why budhism became hostile with neighbouring kingdoms and one of the reasons why it suffered attacks as evident from the first two attacks.
More over, the extent of nalanda destruction by Khilji cannot be compared to the other two. I would say It is a unfair sweeping generalisation to equate both Native Hindu rules and muslim invaders on the same scale.
/** If you denounce the Hindus using the same vitriolic language you use for the muslim invaders, then i will support your condemnation of the muslim invaders. **/
/** I will even agree with you if you adopted the same standard for the Hindus. Make all Hindus responsible for heinous acts committed by Hindus and then i will agree.
**/
This is the root cause of all problems here. Its the basis of Hindu suppression. Even after numerous massacres & genocides (as recent as kashmiri genocide), when hindus raise any issue, they are again suppressed using the above arguments. ITs an attempt to prove, “YOu are not better than mine” to make the cause lose its value.
Ok.. Can the above logic be applied to all others?
The christians persecuted many civilizations. They inflicted worst Goa Inquisition. they supported Hitler in Jewish genocide. Would you be able to say, that they dont have any rights to complain about others?
But its not the case. They raise hullabullow over graham staines incidents, over kandamal violence, even though, they were the offenders in both the case. Why dont the same argument apply there?
See the kashmir issue. The muslim organisations like hurriyat persecuted kashmiri pundits and ethnic cleansed kashmir of Hindu pundits. Yet they complain india of human rights. Why dont the same argument apply there?
I just presented only the other point of case. But, i expect the reply to blame me of hatredness.. ie, to say we hindus are affected, means hatred on others..
My final Points:
—————–
/** How come only the muslims are responsible for the partition? If anything the blame should fall on the British **/
I wonder, if you had forgot the “Direct Action day” started by Jinnah, which called for killing of Hindus to demand separate muslim nation. And it happened, with active suppot of suharwardy, the muslim Governor, who provided support to muslim rioteers from the polic control room.
/** And for your information an equal or more number of muslims were also killed by Hindus **/
Should this absolve Muslim league of its conspiracy and crime? The subject in discussion is that entire riot was started by Muslim league. Not just this, But almost all Hindu-Muslim riots were started by the muslims.
/** What Pakistan did to the Hindus and what other countries do to the Hindus can be a matter of concern **/
ITs not a matter of concern. How can the destruction of an entire community be justa matter of concern? I essentially see it as Muslims splitting our land, and cleansing of Hindus. And the muslims in India, getting undue benefits due to congress appeasement, which was started by Gandhi. In both the cases, its the Hindus, who are victimised deprived and suppressed. Ofcourse, the congress is to be blamed than the muslims.
/** but it cannot be the basis for what we do with our minorities.
**/
I dont understand what do you mean by “what We do with our minorities”. What are we doing? Its a wrong, and unjust accusations.
I would list the few facts, which will prove, your statement is wrong.
-> Most of ancient temples in pakistan is ravaged and destroyed, while Mosques in india were freely used by muslims to worship. Even those mosques constructed on hindu temples like varanasi, kashi were essentially under the control of muslims.
-> Population of Hindus in pakistan reduced to extinction, while muslim population in india raised from 3% to 12%
-> There was muslim president, muslim chief minister, muslim vice-president, and muslim legislators in India. Please compare this with pakistan.
-> Muslims are exempted from family planning in India, while Hindus were targetted for family planning.
-> A muslim in india is free to start a company and now heads one of india’s largest IT company with 80% share holding.
-> A muslim in india can start a pharmeceutical company and thrive in india as largest company.
-> Muslims were allowed to start engineering college for their own people, and government provides special privileges, while Hindu majority is deprived of any benefits and no support provided to it. (I am dead against this minority institution)
There are more facts to prove, that what you termed is completely wrong. Infact, the opposite is true. The congress appeasement of Minorities, is all set against the majority Hindus.
The mosques and churches were under the control of respective religious people, while the temples were still under government control.
But, the pseudo secularist, foreign affiliating, foreign controlled Medias, unjustly sensationalise every issue to keep indians particularly Hindus in apolegetic mode.
While congress is absolved of worst sikh riots, while kashmiri pandits were never given coverage, the gujarat riots where 300 hindus and 700 muslims killed was completely sensationalised and blown out of proportion.
Its highly unfortunate, that you have bought their version.
So, in one way, I should say, today’s indian youth was poisoned and cheated by those pseudo-secularist media, and the Congress minority appeasements.
Senthil, I can understand the source of your arguments. For the sake of it, let us say we admit everything is true. (incidents not your opinions). Do you assume that ALL Muslims did that? Muslims do not have any political party. They all supported Congress. What is wrong with that? Within the frame of our constitution, dont you think there is solution for removing any inequalities without hating them? Dont you believe in India?
A sensitive and faith issue like religion is better left aside from politics. If there is appeasement by certain political parties, just vote against them. But choose good alternatives (if you find one). Not those idolize Hitler/ radical zionoists. I personally witnessed Hindu radicals views, opinions and claims of training during 1991. (some Kar Sevaks). Do you think people are idiots not to know what is happening around. Genocide by ANYONE no matter who they are to be condemned. But using that as a leverage to hate one community degrades oneself. Just raise above that.
I dont want to be too direct…..but do you hate muslims for idiots in muslims (be it Jinnah or Mohd Iqbal) or vote bank politicians or mobs in muslims? What do you think Gandhi wanted - Muslim League ruling India? Nope…he wanted to have Muslim League participating in polls. Why do you think Jinnah rejected it? ML can never come to power…just think of it. And he had choice…Politically he had leverage..British were giving equal weightage to his opinion also. What about princely states?
I think onething about history of Indian Independence…it is past..it is a nightmare.it is complex. All great leaders at that time were well educated and mature. But they are in the process of a nation creation for the first time. They are not Mckinsey consultants with specialization in nation bifurcation and new nation creation. They did everything with great pride. They laid foundation. Now few decades later…if new generation comes and starts analyzing and judging their decisions…it is stupidity of great heights..
How did BJP government handle Kandhahar Hijacking? How did they handle Gujarat riots? Whatever be the ideology, I still believe that BJP government did not intentionally let people die. I believe that they tried their level best. Once riots happen they spread like wild fire…if there are some idiot administrators/ officials who are lettings things happen, it could have. There is a high chance. But NM himself and Vajapayee himself directing to cause riots.. I dont think so.
Dont let the right wing or left wing ideologists spoil your brain. Use your logic. Use your heart..things will look better. You can see goodness everywhere.
Senthil,
There seem to be a gross disregard for minority religions / opinions in your statements. It’s exonymic, but I pity your extreme viewpoints. You can become a prime target for radical/extremist elements in society, if you’re not already a target.
Having bantered with you back and forth for a while, out of respect I want to tell you this - for your own benefit, please be a little more introspective of what you say.
Senthil,
This is my response to http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/04/13/the-real-history-of-india-part-9-one-of-islams-delectable-contributions/#comment-2972
1. Yes govt of india of the british existed, heck even the east india company existed since 1600s but then the British at the height of their power controlled 60% of India (the rest were the princely states). Again, India as a political/geo entity as it exists today is post 1947. India as a cultural entity did exist as i have said before.
2. Interesting argument on Godse. Last time i looked the Congress party was composed of Indians and Hindus for the most part. Your comment seems to indicate that Congress was otherwise. Even today, India has a glorious tradition of rioting when leaders die. As recently as MGR’s death, there were riots. Therefore riots happened after Gandhi’s death is like saying there are tonsured heads in tirupathi. Since you have researched this subject, can you please tell me how many Hindus and specifically Marathis were killed after Gandhi’s death?
3. You have even tried to glorify Godse which is ludicrous and that too with some random rightwinger’s article in Rediff. I wonder whether the judge really made that statement. Even if he did, i wonder who were the people in the room that day. It must have been filled with RSS afficianados. In any case, what a room full of people think cannot be how justice is meted out. If that is your conception of justice, i think you need to look up the dictionary on what justice, the rule of law are. Then we can discuss.
4. you say the Sikh massacre was done by the Congress people. How convenient? Somehow giving the idea that the Congress people not being Hindus. Last time i looked even in 1984 the congress party was filled with Indian Hindus. Unless you have some data to show that it was otherwise. Killing thousands of sikhs for what one misguided sikh did, an act entirely done by the Hindus, is a grim portent of what kind of lives minorities can expect here. The Godhra pogrom furthers that portent. We have no right to be crowing about how great a people we are after all these incidents.
And in case you are interested in real data, the British were around in India since the 1600s and we got our independence in 1947 after a good 300 years of domination. What were the great freedom frighters who you so much like (aside from Gandhi whom you don’t like) doing? How come whatever strategy they were trying were not working? The fact of the matter is, we were passively living under British control except for some random mutinies and skirmishes which did diddly squat to the British power. It is Gandhi, who unified us and he had a strategy which worked. For some misguided people they could not digest that something counterintuitive as Nonviolence could work and started spreading poison about Gandhiji. Meanwhile other great human beings like Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King Jr. used the same strategies successfully and brought about massive change in their countries. As Vamsi pointed out, trying to find faults in what Gandhi and the others did, after so many years is not the right the thing to do.
Senthil,
I am responding to this comment:
http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/04/13/the-real-history-of-india-part-9-one-of-islams-delectable-contributions/#comment-2973
1. Mihirakula was a Hindu, an outsider yes, but a Hindu. The circumstances or why he destroyed Nalanda are irrelevant. he destroyed Nalanda as much as Khilji did. This outsider argument is ridiculous because we have already proved that the Aryans are outsiders as well. The famed Mahabalipuram temples and artwork was done by the Pallavas who were of Iranian descent. Outsiders as well. I am sure you are no less proud of Mahabalipuram because of the fact that the Pallavas were Iranian, are you?
2. Again Shashanka was a Hindu. I didn’t want to bring up his destruction of the Bodhi tree but you did. What Shashanka did is to destroy the holiest thing in Buddhism, the very tree under which Buddha received his englightenment. You write dismissively as if it is some random tree. This is a heinous crime akin to going to Kasi and destroying the Viswanatha idol in the temple. But on the other hand you are so upset about some books destroyed in Nalanda. which is worse? (I am merely arguing here, i am quite upset that Nalanda was destroyed, but my upset is not the issue here, but rather your onesided view of muslims).
3. Hmm. Buddhism and Jainism were infringing on other cultures. How nice a justification? This is exactly what the Muslims are saying, Hindus are infringing on their rights. But you seem to be upset if Muslims turn violent. Make up your mind. You cannot use one argument to support violence done by Hindus and use the same to argue against violence done by Muslims.
4. Any destruction/violence done by anyone is despicable. There is no my violence is better than your violence. Nalanda was destroyed 2 times by Hindus and once by muslims the ratio is 2:1 against Hindus.
Senthil,
This is for http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/04/13/the-real-history-of-india-part-9-one-of-islams-delectable-contributions/#comment-2975
1. All riots were started by muslims. Excellent argument. This is what is a sweeping generalization. Can you please provide data for this allegation? have you tracked all hindu-muslim riots?
2. Gandhi never condemned muslims? Hmm. Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_gandhi#Concept_of_partition
3. I said what Pakistan did is a matter of concern. You seem to be concerned as well. but then you have to goto Pakistan and do something about it or you should petition the Indian govt to take some action. beating up on muslims in India is never going to be a valid solutiion.
4. Again, what Pakistan did/does with Hindu temples/mosques is a matter for Pakistani citizens to work on. It is a different country.
5. Muslims have special privileges because they are minorities. Muslims are also allowed to follow a different law for their personal matters. Muslims are not the only minorities that have these privileges. There is no problem with any of these. This is not minority appeasement. That is just the right wing propaganda. If we all don’t like it, why doesn’t someone do a constitutional amendment and change the law?
6. I am sure you know that in India Family Planning is an optional thing unlike China where it is forced. This is why you still have people giving birth (Hindus i mean) to lots of children. When the whole thing is optional, how does it matter whether Muslims follow it? You can argue your case only if it is mandatory for Hindus, which clearly not the case.
7. As to why the Hindu temple are under govt control? Again, if Hindus don’t like it they need to bring an amendment, change the law etc. Just talking about how Muslims and Christians manage their places of worship is not going to take us anywhere.
Overall you may want to reflect on what Vamsi and Sridhar have said in their comments.
BTW Senthil. Why does the govt run banks, buses, large scale industries, trains, airlines, banks, retail shops, distributes food, runs television, educational institutions - almost everything under the sun is run by the govt. you don’t have a problem with that? But you have a problem when it runs our temples. The main problem in India is this - the govt is into too many things and they are way in over their head. Modern day governments do only policing, defence, regulatory work etc. That is all the govt should do. Everything else should be private. In India this will happen maybe in the next 1000 years or maybe the next 10,000 years.
Another thing - some how a muslim president, muslim vice president, muslims being allowed to run their own colleges is sufficient to say that muslims are as well off as the Hindus. Please tell me what you smoke, i want some of that. This is the same argument, people use for women - we have Indra Nooyi and Indra Gandhi and Jayalalitha, so women in India are much better off. I call it the “trophy progress” argument. Establish some key examples of progress amidst minorities and women and use that to claim that their entire lot is doing great. This is the lamest argument anyone can put together.
Rediff was a firm supporter of right wing militant ideology. The articles by their columnists cannot prove anything. The author of the above article is a big RSS/ Hindu Maha Sabha supporter. Indian populace (not political parties who want power) had shown extreme strength of character that makes us unique.
Thanks Vamsi. I didn’t know about rediff’s ideology. In any case, i wonder who was in the room that day when Godse’s judgement was read out. only RSS people could have thought that Godse should be acquitted and maybe the room for filled with them.
Correct Sukumar. I am very shocked to see that these days, after so much of progress we made, there are elements who glorify the terrorists. Saying Godse as a devout Brahmin doesnt make him a saint. It chimes well with those who believe that all Brahmins are good/ immune from any moral/ legal obligations. Every killer will have a reason, ideology, anger or something. It doesnt put them in a different plane for being Brahmin or followers of Hinduism. They just are killers.
http://www.mkgandhi-sarvodaya.org/godse.htm
As a human M.K Gandhi might have made many mistakes. As a politician also he might have made many mistakes.(clash with Bose and statements about Hitler etc). But as a person who perfected civil disobedience movement, he is a master of understanding the moral conflict between British colonial thinking and British commn man. And used it very effectively.
During partition, most of them in Congress did accept because they had no choice. I am no supporter of Congress. But classic Congress is definitely more Hindu than any other castes. It is also much better than later years congress and all other parties. Those days it is also a very upper class managed organization with wide mass acceptance.
Vamsi,
You are bang on the money. Yes, Gandhiji made mistakes. But who can claim to be infallible on this planet?
Yes Congress was a high class managed party. This is why Periyar started the Justice Party which became DK which then gave rise to DMK. In fact they needed reservation in the elections so that brahmins wont dominate the elections. Reservations for the majority - all because of Brahmin domination!
Vamsi,
I just managed to read the link you posted. It shows that this whole thing about people crying and the judge saying things are pure lies propagated by the right wing demagogues. Why am i not surprised. Senthil, i am sure has no response to offer. Thanks for the research.
Sukumar,
What a fantastic set of erudite articles that you’ve produced on the history of India? This is a slight for sore eyes indeed, given the amount of garbage being strewn around these days, dressed up as history. I’d like to doff my hat to you and your wonderful research on this. To be honest with you, it would be a shame, if you don’t go on to publish a book or two on these, with more research and your ever-evolving (as it happens in historical researches) insights. It’s really remarkable to see the quality of your research, given the busy schedule your job title entails – Yes, I used to work in the same organization as yours, and I’ve read your posts there in the blogosphere then.
Thanks a lot for the kind words Vijay. You have made our day here.
And atlast the bangalore blast had happened…
Can any one explain, the real cause of such numerous attacks, targetting mostly innocent civilians.. what is wrong with the bangalore people, to get targetted?
Let me list out some of the recent blasts happened..
* May 13, 2008: Eight blasts rock Jaipur in a span of 12 minutes leaving 65 dead and over 150 injured.
* January 2008: Terrorist attack on Central Reserve Police Force camp in Rampur kills eight.
* October 2007: 2 killed in a blast inside Ajmer Sharif shrine during Ramadan, in Rajasthan.
* August 2007: 32 dead, 35 hurt in Hyderabad ‘terror’ strike.
* May 2007: A bomb at Mecca mosque in Hyderabad kills 11 people.
* February 19, 2007: Two bombs explode aboard a train bound from India to Pakistan, burning to death at least 66 passengers, most of them Pakistanis.
* September 2006: 30 dead and 100 hurt in twin blasts at a mosque in Malegaon, Maharashtra.
* July 2006: Seven bombs on Mumbai’s trains kill over 200 and injure 700 others.
* March 2006: Twin bombings at a train station and a temple in Varanasi kill 20 people.
* October 2005: Three bombs placed in busy New Delhi markets a day before Diwali kill 62 people and injure hundreds.
—————————————————————–
And all of the above attacks are carried over by islamic terrorists.. Can there be a factual analysis of the underlying cause, without any prejudice, fear, bias, or minority sentiments??
Or should we ignore all these heinous crimes without understanding why it happens, and just exclaim at the delicious food that the mughals brought..
Or as sridhar said, should we fear from expressing our concern just because we may be targets of the very same terrorists..
Senthil - Let’s take a sec here to express our outrage over what happened in Banagalore. Only mad dogs that deserve no pity do that.
Let’s come back to the fine points in your comment. You actually understand why these crimes happen? How wonderful. Have you ever written a post on what should be done to solve the problem? That’s not full of rhetoric? Why don’t you try that & enlighten us?
I’m sure your lack of fear & refusal to bow to the Minority Sentiment - will exhibit itself as a scathing attack on Muslims in your BLOG. And your factual analysis will conclude that they are all villains & its a terrible religion that has caused great harm across the world. We’ll wait with bated breath to read that post. We’ve read it many times before in various forms ad nauseum, but I’m sure we’ll see its next Avtar in your BLOG now.
The will to understand why things happen is not the same as condoning terrorism. Only very foolish people think that. Only people blinded with hatred can’t tolerate appreciation of anything remotely Muslim.
Its downright silly to ask us why we write about something & not about something else that you deem important. We don’t need your approval to post our views in our BLOG. So, please mind your own business, follow some basic etiquette & decorum befitting the blogosphere. We may not like some of your ideas either - in fact we loathe some of them - but you won’t find us asking you why you posted something in your BLOG. We may say that we disagree with you. We may have a heated argument with you. We may challenge your data. But, we respect freedom of speech.
You like to reduce people & cultures to caricatures, so you can easily pillory them. Your BLOG is to vent your anger & rage - as you say so yourself. We, the authors of this BLOG, use it to air our thoughts, ideas, myriad feelings & sentiments. Anger is only 1 ingredient, not the main course. We intend to keep it that way.
I havent asked “Why you have written this”.. so no question of “Mind your business” to me.. i respect the freedom even to fight, let alone express.. and i do follow the same as much as possible..
Now, i dont want to go in to another heated debate.. but i feel, my anger is rightly justified.. and i raised this topic here, because this post was dealing with islam’s contribution..
But i would like to clarify some of the ambiguities in your comment..
* To say that “One has done wrong” is different from “hating the person”.. I am not hating islam.. rather, i am pointing some of terrible attacks in the name of islam, .. unfortunately, many of the elites tend to equate islamic terrorists with muslims, which itself is an insult to the muslims..
* There are plenty of peaceful muslims, and we can say that 90% of muslims are peaceful.. but they themselves are under besiege from those remaining few terrorists.. those muslims who oppose the terrorists are killed.. so they prefer to remain silent..
But our silence wont spare us.. because we dont understand the core reason of the terrorist attack..
I want a factual, and calm debate on this core issue.. because, from the list i have provided, it has crossed more than 10 bomb blasts in the past two to three years.. and yet we dont want to deal with this grave issue..
The only thing i want to point out is that are we going to equate normal muslims with muslim terrorists.. does condemning, opposing, and even hating muslim terrorist equate to opposing entire muslims??
if you dont want to deal with such sensitive topics, well i will leave it now itself..
Thank you..
/** Your BLOG is to vent your anger & rage - as you say so yourself. We, the authors of this BLOG, use it to air our thoughts, ideas, myriad feelings & sentiments. Anger is only 1 ingredient, not the main course. We intend to keep it that way.
**/
This is a valid point.. in future, i will attempt to express varied topics other than my angers..
Senthil - When you said: “Or should we ignore all these heinous crimes without understanding why it happens, and just exclaim at the delicious food that the mughals brought”
It looks like you are telling the author that writing about terrorism is more important than writing about food. That’s another way of saying “Why have you written this”. Which is why I said we’ll write what we please.
In your latest comments you say - “but i feel, my anger is rightly justified.. and i raised this topic here, because this post was dealing with islam’s contribution”
Here is you, saying you aren’t trying to dictate what we write. And then you are justifiably angry because the author has written a post about Islam’s contributions. Go figure. If you believe that 90% of the muslims are decent people, you won’t have any problem in recognizing their contribution & then condemning terrorism.
I’m glad to know that you really want to understand why these things happen. We believe that we have a glimmer of understanding on why these things happen. There are many others with a deeper understanding.
We can’t get any answers by looking only at Indian history. We need to understand Naqba following the formation of Israel, The decline of the Ottoman Empire, Alienation felt by Muslim immigrants in Europe, Origins of Muslim Ideological thoughts of the 20th Century - and yes, interference by super-powers. Some decent books have been written on the subject. Perhaps we can do a post on these topics, however controversial this might seem. Let’s see.
Its good to know that you’ll write more varied topics. Looking FW to reading them. Perhaps you’ll consider doing a post on your local festivals, unique to your region? That would be very interesting to read.
Senthil,
Priya is right. What you are saying is totally flawed logic. What has Islamic terrorism of today got to do with Islam’s contribution to Indian food 1000 years ago? Terrorism is a huge problem today and i am of the view that for us to come up with a solution, we have to look closely at what the majority communities are doing. Unless we look deeply inside and introspect, we cannot come out with an effective solution. Just trying to paint Islamists in the corner and saying they are the reason for all the terrorism in the world is not going to solve the problem and the statement is not even true.
Let me ask you this, copying your strategy (you have the penchant for tying adam to akbar (mottai thalai to mozhangal in Tamil)), how come in the BJP ruled states more terrorism is happening? I thought the right wing led by Modi had some kind of magic formula to curb terrorism? Maybe that magic formula does not work beyond the borders of Gujarat?
Oh well. looks like Modi’s magic formula does not work even within Gujarat. now that we have 12 blasts in Ahmedabad. Hope the BJP will abandon its minority-bashing policies atleast now.
Priya,
I am angry at the incident of bomb blast.. not at this post.. ( i am misunderstood).. my anger on the islamic terrorists is justifiied..
Nice that you have touched upon some history on turkey, arabia, europe etc.. and you can reach the root cause, if we go by another half a millenia back..
The answer is very straight forward..
Sukumar,
We have more of logical conflict than ideological conflict
..
Let me put down my logic..
* The very starting of this post is about alleged distortion of history, and an attempt to project “the positives surpassed negatives”.. and my response today is that the major contribution of islam is terror and brutality which continues till now.. I hope, you could get the logic and link.. (its not adam to akbar.. its a straight adam to eve link
)
(I am surprised that only the cuisines brought by them is visible to you, whereas the real worthy contribution is Mughal architecture and Sufism)..
/** we have to look closely at what the majority communities are doing. **/
In this case, i would be glad to know What the bangaloreans were doing so far to get targetted??
Ok.. what the entire majority of india were doing to get retaliated with 100’s of bomb blasts? it would really help, if you could write another post on this ..
This is a typical example, where the victims is further victimised.. when some one plants another bomb, we should not trace out the culprits.. rather, we need to find out what the victimised people did.. i dont understand the logic.
* If islamicists are not the reason for the terrorism around the world, then who really are the reason?? let me recall some of world terrorist incidents — madrid bombing, londom bombing, twin towers, paris riots, bombing of isreal, moscow seizure, recent bombing in beijing, bali bombing…. etc..
The problem is the hyper-sensitisation of the issue and the utter, unfair, divisive minorityism..
/** how come in the BJP ruled states more terrorism is happening? **/
This is an important question.. and i am again repeating the same question.. “How come, there was no bomb blasts in bangalore for all these years during congress rule , and only when bjp comes, the bomb blasts happens?” .. may be the safe heaven for the terrorists has gone now..
The real reason is that the BJP doesnt collude with the islamic terrorists or have secret understanding with them.. and it points out that its the BJP whom the islamic terrorist really consider as an enemy.. (not the congress)..
There was no bomblast for the past five years in gujarat, inspite of it bordering pakistan.. but that’s never been appreciated..
And now, the ahmedabad bomb blast happened, and again modi became the villain (instead of the terrorists..)
———————————
Let me put in concise.. the core difference in this heated debate is this gross minorityism, and the result of which, even the hard core terrorists are being voluntarily & deliberately ignored, because they are from minority community.. the result, is that the bomb blasts never stops..
“The silence of the good does more harm to the society than the activities of the bad people”..
I am sorry Senthil. Let me say this one more time The fact that Islam of today has terrorists in its midst does not have anything to do with 1000 years ago. History is what happened in the past. Islamic terrorism is a contemporary phenomenon not historical. Hope you can understand that.
Given that rightists including youself do a lot of Islam bashing i chose to highlight Islam’s positive contributions.
So talking about Islamic terrorism in this post is indeed a adam-to-akbar tie.
It is the BJP that had been crowing about how well they administer and how well they prevent terrorism. Now they big time egg on their face - jaipur blasts happened first. To your point the bjp govt has been in power there for a while. So how come?
The answer is simple. Terrorism is a complex phenomenon something without a proper solution. No govt can claim immunity against it.
BJP for its part has to abandon its minority bashing and hopefully engage everyone in a constructive conversation.
Anyway, what do you think is the solution? As Priya said, why don’t you write on your blog a potential solution.
The BJP had proved now.. they are not just crowing.. but had proved in real.. In the last five years, this is the first bomb blasts, which has been cracked in short time..
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/villains-behind-july-26-blasts-identified-held/71370-3-single.html
The BJP had also cracked parliament attack case earlier.. Only a true nationalist can do that..
Pls show me any congress governments which had shown this strong commitment in solving any of the bomblasts in the past.. they deliberate muslim/minority appeasement has never let them catch the real criminals..
Very good job by the Gujarat government. Also thanks to the collective effort of *all* central intelligence agencies for providing all the necessary data in the right time.
Senthil - “Only a true nationalist can do that”?? What a non-sequitur. Competence, not nationalism, helped them solve the case. In your haste to beat up the Congress, you seem to be ignoring logic. Jayalalitha is tough on terrorism, too. In your haste to heap plaudits on BJP, you forgot her it seems.
No one disputes the capability of Modi. You are simply beating a dead snake. Only the Congress & the Left parties refuse to accept Modi’s accomplishments - and we all know that’s just politics. The real issue is BJP’s (& Modi’s) approach towards the minorities. Their minority baiting.
“Minority Appeasement”? What about “Majority Blindness”? That’s what I accuse you of. And in Tamil Nadu, the attacks were pre-empted by the police. You conveniently ignored that - maybe because TN is led by a “minority appeasing” DMK govt?
Priya.. There were around half-a-dozen mumbai bomb blasts earlier.. Most of them is not yet solved.. except for 1992 bomb blast, that too after 10 years later..
The mumbai train bombings that happened two years ago.. there is no news till now, whether investigation is going on or not.. what is the reason? Is it because mumbai police is incompetent?? Never Its because of the cowardice & minority appeasement of the congress, that this worst crime is ignored..
While competence is a key factor, unquestioned nationalism is the most important thing that shapes the mindset of the rulers.. for the BJP, there is no need for minority appeasement.. so they wholeheartedly went with their investigation and finally nabbed the terrorists..
Conviction, unquestionable loyalty, love towards motherland, .. all are traits of a nationalists.. Not the one seen among the crowd of unscrupulous & spineless power mongers, who mortgaged our nation to an italian lady..
In such sense, even jayalalitha is a nationalist.. any one who cares for the nation is a nationalist.. Even you are a nationalist, if you care for this nation..
Regarding your accusations on Modi, i should say, its baseless. the facts speak a lot..
the gujarat riot happened within few months he took over.. and after that, there was no riots, no bomb blasts, not even a single strike.. Rapid development, and prosperity is the hall mark of his rule.. And he did not exclude muslims from this development.. As much as hindus prospered, muslims also prospered equally out of this gujarat boom..
Modi did not drive away muslims out of gujarat, just like the kashmiris drove away the 4 lakh pundits ..
Nor he says, Hindus has the first priority over national resources..
In one of the recent speech by L.K Advani, among the group of Muslim women in Delhi, he declared, that BJP will work for uplifting muslims, irrespective of whether they vote for BJP or not..
What else they should do for you to abandon this baseless allegations?
Will you accept only if they fall at the feet of minorities and appease them just as the congress do.. or will you accept only if they say “Muslims have the first priority over National resources” ?
Today, the perpetuators of the kashmiri genocide, like geelani, and the other hurriyat leaders are still roaming in the country.. one of such perpetuators is a central minister too.. and still they are not hesitant to hoist pakistani flag in kashmir.. Still, they are not ready to allow the kashmiri pundits to return to kashmir.. and still they claim, kashmir is only for muslims..
yet, no one points a single finger at them.. Is it what you term justice..