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	<title>Comments on: The Real History of India &#8211; Part 7: Chariots, Horses and Thunderbolts</title>
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	<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/</link>
	<description>Knowledge is Scrumptious</description>
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		<title>By: AISHA BAUER</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/comment-page-2/#comment-18716</link>
		<dc:creator>AISHA BAUER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 03:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/#comment-18716</guid>
		<description>Merely submitting what a wise man with the nick name  The Army - submitted on another site to the &#039;rants&#039; from Neville the master of baffle them with b&#039;lshi&#039;t if you lack the brains to dazzle...
His questions were unanswered by Neville there, so I post here again 3 years later.

&quot;And yeah, one more thing…Neville…Sanskrit is a language, not a script. And what was found at Indus valley was not a language, it is a script which still lies undeciphered.

That script may very well turn out to be Sanskrit shlokas/hymns.&quot;

I hope Neville (Ramdeholl) reads this. Don’t wanna waste our time, so I’ve put it point-wise. The following points just cannot be ignored about this AIT/OIT controversy. And I need an answer for each of them by anyone who has the right answers:

1) If the ‘light skinned and mostly blonde haired and blue eyed’ Aryans had really invaded India and settled here thereafter, then why aren’t such people with such ‘white’ features found in India now? If it is because of centuries of racial intermixing, then how come one can still find some quite dark skinned people in India but not central Asian/ European type ‘white’ skinned people in India? Even the light brown skinned people found in the far north of India in places like Kashmir aren’t as fair as the ‘Aryans’ are considered to be.

2) The Aryans divided themselves into 3 classes. The fourth class was the lowly ‘Shudra’ class, explained by the European historians as the Aryan conquered Dravidians’ class. By this logic, all the high castes, esp. the Brahmins had to be white/ light brown skinned and the people belonging to the ‘Shudra’ class had to be dark brown skinned. And yet, many dark skinned Brahmins and light skinned ‘Shudras’ can easily be found in India – both in north as well as south. And upon that, inter-caste marriages, esp. high and low caste ones, are still rare in almost all parts of India.

3) How come almost all the light brown skinned people in India (considered to be the descedants of the original Aryans) belong to the cold climate locations of India like Kashmir and Himachal and the dark brown skinned (considered to be the Dravidians themselves) belong to the warm climate locations? This suggests that skin colour in India has more do do with the climate and atmosphere of a particular region in India.

4) If the Aryans were outsiders in India, then why do their spiritual-cultural-social compilation ‘The Vedas’ do not mention any outside cities, rivers and mountains? Why do they only mention the places that are found in India, as their sacred most? Why not some place in Caucasus or Iran?

5) If the Dravidians’ Indus valley civilization met its end at the hands of the invading Aryans, then how come no weapons, horse remains, broken chariots and burned buildings were discovered in and around the valley?

6) How come there was (and is) no conflict or confrontation of any kind between the people or north and south India, ever? How come Brahmins (the highest Aryan caste) are present at both the locations? They should have been concentrated in the north.

7) If Aryans were outsiders in India (and not the insiders), then how come ‘Swastika’ – an Aryan symbol – was found on some indigenous Indus valley seals?

 The invading Aryans have been described as either nomadic or semi-nomadic people. It is difficult to imagine that such nomadic people could write anything even close to the complex Vedas.

9) India (or more specifically Hinduism which forms 80% of Indian population and which considers the Vedas as its highest spiritual-cultural-social authority and ‘Swastika’ as its religious symbol) does not have any oral or written account of any ‘Aryan invasion’ or any north-south or white-dark divide, past 3500-5000 years of its existence. Infact, the Britishers were the first ones to talk about all such things in India, to the utter shock of the Hindus.

10) No race, religion, nation, group, caste and community on this planet that claims an Aryan lineage, has been able to preserve the Aryan devised socio-cultural traditions and symbols on a CONTINUOUS BASIS. Only India, with its Hindus, is an exception to this. Look at Iran – everybody knows that Aryanism (Zoroastrianism/ Parsis) is dead there now. Islam has taken over. And the funny thing is that almost half of the total Zoroastrians in this world live in India now! Look at Caucasus – just a few pieces of historical findings, and that too of no religious, spiritual importance for the people living there. Look at neo-Nazis and Pan Aryans- just 150 years back they and their forefathers hadn’t even heard of the term ‘Aryans/Aryas’.

These above points do not completely destroy AIT, but they make such a mockery of it (AIT)…….
Reply</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merely submitting what a wise man with the nick name  The Army &#8211; submitted on another site to the &#8216;rants&#8217; from Neville the master of baffle them with b&#8217;lshi&#8217;t if you lack the brains to dazzle&#8230;<br />
His questions were unanswered by Neville there, so I post here again 3 years later.</p>
<p>&#8220;And yeah, one more thing…Neville…Sanskrit is a language, not a script. And what was found at Indus valley was not a language, it is a script which still lies undeciphered.</p>
<p>That script may very well turn out to be Sanskrit shlokas/hymns.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope Neville (Ramdeholl) reads this. Don’t wanna waste our time, so I’ve put it point-wise. The following points just cannot be ignored about this AIT/OIT controversy. And I need an answer for each of them by anyone who has the right answers:</p>
<p>1) If the ‘light skinned and mostly blonde haired and blue eyed’ Aryans had really invaded India and settled here thereafter, then why aren’t such people with such ‘white’ features found in India now? If it is because of centuries of racial intermixing, then how come one can still find some quite dark skinned people in India but not central Asian/ European type ‘white’ skinned people in India? Even the light brown skinned people found in the far north of India in places like Kashmir aren’t as fair as the ‘Aryans’ are considered to be.</p>
<p>2) The Aryans divided themselves into 3 classes. The fourth class was the lowly ‘Shudra’ class, explained by the European historians as the Aryan conquered Dravidians’ class. By this logic, all the high castes, esp. the Brahmins had to be white/ light brown skinned and the people belonging to the ‘Shudra’ class had to be dark brown skinned. And yet, many dark skinned Brahmins and light skinned ‘Shudras’ can easily be found in India – both in north as well as south. And upon that, inter-caste marriages, esp. high and low caste ones, are still rare in almost all parts of India.</p>
<p>3) How come almost all the light brown skinned people in India (considered to be the descedants of the original Aryans) belong to the cold climate locations of India like Kashmir and Himachal and the dark brown skinned (considered to be the Dravidians themselves) belong to the warm climate locations? This suggests that skin colour in India has more do do with the climate and atmosphere of a particular region in India.</p>
<p>4) If the Aryans were outsiders in India, then why do their spiritual-cultural-social compilation ‘The Vedas’ do not mention any outside cities, rivers and mountains? Why do they only mention the places that are found in India, as their sacred most? Why not some place in Caucasus or Iran?</p>
<p>5) If the Dravidians’ Indus valley civilization met its end at the hands of the invading Aryans, then how come no weapons, horse remains, broken chariots and burned buildings were discovered in and around the valley?</p>
<p>6) How come there was (and is) no conflict or confrontation of any kind between the people or north and south India, ever? How come Brahmins (the highest Aryan caste) are present at both the locations? They should have been concentrated in the north.</p>
<p>7) If Aryans were outsiders in India (and not the insiders), then how come ‘Swastika’ – an Aryan symbol – was found on some indigenous Indus valley seals?</p>
<p> The invading Aryans have been described as either nomadic or semi-nomadic people. It is difficult to imagine that such nomadic people could write anything even close to the complex Vedas.</p>
<p>9) India (or more specifically Hinduism which forms 80% of Indian population and which considers the Vedas as its highest spiritual-cultural-social authority and ‘Swastika’ as its religious symbol) does not have any oral or written account of any ‘Aryan invasion’ or any north-south or white-dark divide, past 3500-5000 years of its existence. Infact, the Britishers were the first ones to talk about all such things in India, to the utter shock of the Hindus.</p>
<p>10) No race, religion, nation, group, caste and community on this planet that claims an Aryan lineage, has been able to preserve the Aryan devised socio-cultural traditions and symbols on a CONTINUOUS BASIS. Only India, with its Hindus, is an exception to this. Look at Iran – everybody knows that Aryanism (Zoroastrianism/ Parsis) is dead there now. Islam has taken over. And the funny thing is that almost half of the total Zoroastrians in this world live in India now! Look at Caucasus – just a few pieces of historical findings, and that too of no religious, spiritual importance for the people living there. Look at neo-Nazis and Pan Aryans- just 150 years back they and their forefathers hadn’t even heard of the term ‘Aryans/Aryas’.</p>
<p>These above points do not completely destroy AIT, but they make such a mockery of it (AIT)…….<br />
Reply</p>
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		<title>By: senthil</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/comment-page-2/#comment-13228</link>
		<dc:creator>senthil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/#comment-13228</guid>
		<description>/** Homer wrote Illiad sometimes 3000 years ago WHEREAS Ramayan and Mahabharat was written about 1000-1500 years thereafter.
**/

I dont know about dating of Illiad..  But what substantiation we have to date Ramayan or Mahabharatha?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/** Homer wrote Illiad sometimes 3000 years ago WHEREAS Ramayan and Mahabharat was written about 1000-1500 years thereafter.<br />
**/</p>
<p>I dont know about dating of Illiad..  But what substantiation we have to date Ramayan or Mahabharatha?</p>
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		<title>By: jogi</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/comment-page-2/#comment-13227</link>
		<dc:creator>jogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/#comment-13227</guid>
		<description>In continuation of the discussion whether Aryans were local or foreigner, the story of Ramayan is another proof. On comparison of Illiad and Ramayan, the biggest thing that come out of it is that Ramayan is nothing but the copy of Illiad. Homer wrote Illiad sometimes 3000 years ago WHEREAS Ramayan and Mahabharat was written about 1000-1500 years thereafter. The histoical evidence suport the invasion of Aryans on India. Ramayan appear to be carbon copy of conceopt from Illiad vis a vis deep affection of two brothers, kidnapping the wife by the ruler of an island country, war betwween them so on and so off. This further confims the theft of Greek literature by so called Indian writers with a view to please the invaders and imposition of the same as religious text. It is strange tha Iliad is never taken as a part of the religion unlike the Ramayan in India. This further proves the copy cat nature of Indians to please those in power.-Jogi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In continuation of the discussion whether Aryans were local or foreigner, the story of Ramayan is another proof. On comparison of Illiad and Ramayan, the biggest thing that come out of it is that Ramayan is nothing but the copy of Illiad. Homer wrote Illiad sometimes 3000 years ago WHEREAS Ramayan and Mahabharat was written about 1000-1500 years thereafter. The histoical evidence suport the invasion of Aryans on India. Ramayan appear to be carbon copy of conceopt from Illiad vis a vis deep affection of two brothers, kidnapping the wife by the ruler of an island country, war betwween them so on and so off. This further confims the theft of Greek literature by so called Indian writers with a view to please the invaders and imposition of the same as religious text. It is strange tha Iliad is never taken as a part of the religion unlike the Ramayan in India. This further proves the copy cat nature of Indians to please those in power.-Jogi</p>
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		<title>By: Abdul jamil khan M.D</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/comment-page-2/#comment-13112</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdul jamil khan M.D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/#comment-13112</guid>
		<description>Dear all,
  It has been really interesting reading;It seems most of the writters seem to defend &quot;indo-euro-aryanism&quot; and linguistic racism
by default.This is all old stuff. Look at cumulative evolution out of africa. Aryan/semitic model is biblical creation model imposed by british in 19th century that had lead to &quot; hindu-british Aryan brothers&quot; versus &quot; semitic arabic apologist muslim&quot; ethno religious cultural divide and indias&#039; plunder ( by british) and &quot;india&#039;s holocaust--partition messacre&quot;( 2 millions perished). In anew book ( urdu/hindi an artificial divide, african heritage etc) i have tried to integrate out of africa and mideast farmers revealing a cumulative Indian culture based on ecological evolution;This exposes Biblical aryan/semitic racism ( 6000 years oid) as priestly
fraud/politics and discredits terms such as &quot; hindu,muslim, judeo-chritian civilisations as politiacal fraud; civilisation/languages 
are based on ecology/evolution and NOT on Adam/eve/ or hindu creationism.
      Book ( 2006) has some interesting reviews. will help the debate move away from religious/national fundamentalism/racism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear all,<br />
  It has been really interesting reading;It seems most of the writters seem to defend &#8220;indo-euro-aryanism&#8221; and linguistic racism<br />
by default.This is all old stuff. Look at cumulative evolution out of africa. Aryan/semitic model is biblical creation model imposed by british in 19th century that had lead to &#8221; hindu-british Aryan brothers&#8221; versus &#8221; semitic arabic apologist muslim&#8221; ethno religious cultural divide and indias&#8217; plunder ( by british) and &#8220;india&#8217;s holocaust&#8211;partition messacre&#8221;( 2 millions perished). In anew book ( urdu/hindi an artificial divide, african heritage etc) i have tried to integrate out of africa and mideast farmers revealing a cumulative Indian culture based on ecological evolution;This exposes Biblical aryan/semitic racism ( 6000 years oid) as priestly<br />
fraud/politics and discredits terms such as &#8221; hindu,muslim, judeo-chritian civilisations as politiacal fraud; civilisation/languages<br />
are based on ecology/evolution and NOT on Adam/eve/ or hindu creationism.<br />
      Book ( 2006) has some interesting reviews. will help the debate move away from religious/national fundamentalism/racism.</p>
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		<title>By: Neville Ramdeholl</title>
		<link>http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/comment-page-2/#comment-8756</link>
		<dc:creator>Neville Ramdeholl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 07:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/#comment-8756</guid>
		<description>Hey guys, Whatever happened to the theories of Frawley, Rajaram and others?  I think it is time to review their theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, Whatever happened to the theories of Frawley, Rajaram and others?  I think it is time to review their theories.</p>
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