The Age of Innocence
The Age of InnocenceIn the Summer of 1985, Class X of “Sacred Heart Girls Convent” suffered an electric jolt. To be precise, there were 65 of us in the class (Hey – India is a densely populated country) & 64 of us were shocked out of our wits. As for the 65th scholar – Well, this post is about her.
We had finished our board exams & a few days later, we were all luxuriating in the shade of the many trees that dotted our campus. The weather wasn’t too bad for April, we were all in our “color” dresses (instead of the nerdy Maroon & Cream horror euphemistically called “Uniform Dress Code”) & many of us had iced lollies in our hands. Life was perfect, as life tends to get after grueling exams.
We spotted Innasi striding purposefully towards us. None of us knew what Innasi’s job title was – You could best describe her as an “odd-jobs woman”. She rung the school bell, swept the corridor, pruned the roses, fawned around the Head-Mistress & lorded over the pre-teens. She was a “personage” nevertheless & knew stuff that nobody else did. On the rare occasions that she led the school prayer (people, people – we are talking about a Catholic school), she sang in a mellifluous voice that startled & mesmerized in equal measure. Innasi always walked purposefully – strode, to be precise. Perhaps Alexander walked like that after defeating Darius in battle.
“Do you know why there’s a crowd before Sister Pauline’s office?” she asked smugly. “No, Innasi. Though we have a hunch that you’re dying to tell us – So, why don’t you get it over with?” – said Anita. The rest of us sniggered. Insolence is the right of the young. Innasi scowled & said – “Well, smart-asses! Malini is getting married”. Enola Gay couldn’t have left such a silence in its wake.
Malini, our classmate was getting married. Damn, we were 15 years old. Most of us were not averse to Holy Matrimony, but it loomed hazily in the future, somewhere after college graduation. All of us were looking forward to “Secondary School” & “Sweet 16″ parties. Sister Pauline (our Head-Mistress) frowned upon anyone wearing make-up at school – and in sheer defiance, some rebels had secretly planned on painting themselves like trollops that very day & hitting a cool hang-out after that. Geeks like me were doing some “light” reading on “Nuclear Physics” to prepare – for Armageddon, perhaps? But now, all was forgotten. We were too stunned to speak.
Innasi was pleased as punch at our shock, so she readily answered our questions. Malini was marrying her uncle – Mother’s brother. The “groom” was 32 years old. The wedding will take place in May 1985. Sister Pauline had thrown a hissy fit, since she had strong feelings about minors getting married. But Malini’s parents were adamant & had terminated her education. If she was lucky, her husband-to-be might permit her to complete her Secondary School. “Oh, but Sister Pauline will not have her back!” – Innasi said ominously.
“What you mean, you old coot, is you’d rather derive perverse pleasure in Malini being a school drop-out!” – this was Beulah & her voice shook. She was almost in tears. “Do you brush your teeth with gun-powder, Beulah – because you are shooting your mouth off!” – Innasi walked off in a huff. In some communities, people marry their cousins – but, I have to confess that marrying an uncle freaks me out totally. I mean, your grandma becomes your mother-in-law! Somehow that doesn’t sound right to me.
A few months back, our Math teacher Ms Stella blurted out – “Isn’t Malini pretty?”. Ms Stella was like that – she never mastered the art of decorum. We loved her for that – she was rather refreshing. I gave Malini the once-over – Really, I can disconcert people with my critical eye. We were all gauche and either skinny or rotund with baby fat. We were as awkward as colts. Malini was already semi-Rubenesque, had long silky hair & a smooth skin. Why be unkind enough to dissect someone’s appearance beyond this? She was definitely pretty. Perhaps the problem started there.
Most of us took a bus or rode a bicycle to school. But, Malini was chaperoned to school. Her bosom friend, Shanthi, had obscenely rich parents & commandeered her own car. But, her driver dropped her off – she wasn’t chaperoned by a mother, clucking like an over-protective hen. Poor Malini. Apparently her looks had attracted the unwelcome attention of “loafers” – read boys in our age group. Some besotted boy tried to – GASP! – talk to her. Another rapscallion tried to woo her with roses. Her parents, obviously horrified with the attention their 15 year old daughter was getting, miffed her “suitors” by chaperoning her. Perhaps some moron serenaded her now, who knows? So, her devoted parents had arranged her marriage, thereby squelching her life.
“So, Malini will become what, sort of like a mother?” moaned Fatima. This was a depressing thought. Mothers carry large, ugly hand-bags the size of a circus tent. In it, they had bank statements, electricity bills, grocery lists, “to do” lists, spare diapers, an amazing assortment of keys that open no known doors in the universe & wads of tissues. They had “responsibilities” like paying the bills, buying provisions, making dinner, entertaining guests & overseeing the maid. Most of us were militantly irresponsible. A simple “Clean your room!” from our parents elicited nasty looks & much ominous mutterings akin to thunder from us. Malini probably would start investing wisely in shares, we thought gloomily. She’ll be buying a nice “starter home” when Shanthi – whom we knew was destined to be a doctor – was dissecting her first cadaver in Med school.
What did Malini think about this? – We wondered. She never struck me as a push-over. She was articulate, reserved but friendly. Why on Jan 85, when I was shopping for clothes with my mother, I bumped into Malini. Mum wanted me to get an ultra-traditional long skirt that looked totally dorky – and I mulishly chose a pair of jeans. And glared back at mum, willing her to order me around. Malini smiled at me sweetly & said – “Why don’t you buy a traditional long skirt? Isn’t that our culture?”. Mum looked ecstatic & beamed, while I gaped at Malini, horrified. “In any case, we have to listen to our elders in the long run!” she said, looking gentle like a Simmentaler cow.
That incident must have given me a clue. “Accede, don’t defy” must have been Malini’s Mantra in life. We saw a red-faced Sister Pauline getting out of her office. She had begged, harangued & threatened Malini’s parents on her behalf. But to no avail. We made a beeline for the Head-Mistress’s office. Malini was standing there alone, with her trade-mark gentle expression. We felt miserable. Many of us were tongue-tied for the 1st time in our lives. “So” said Shree brightly – “Joining us for a game of Volleyball?”. Anita kicked Shree’s legs violently. Maybe Malini was forbidden from playing games – brides-to-be have to behave in a dignified manner. “Hey, what do you all want to be, when you grow up?” – This was Lakshmi. We all groaned inwardly. She had no tact whatsoever – “I’m gonna be a Police Officer!!” – she bellowed. Poor Malini. Would she have the option of working?
“Well, Uh, Congratulations, Malini” we said uncertainly. “Thank You” she said. Her expression was inscrutable. “And wow, huh. Great news” – Each of us shook her hand. Shanthi hugged her & wouldn’t let go off her for 5 minutes. It was a sad scene, almost funereal, reminiscent of “Ode to the Nightingale” by Keats. Ms Stella & a few of us took Shanthi aside for a cup of tea. Shanthi looked very pale & her hands shook when she took the proffered cup. “Tell me something” she said. “How does she feel about, you know, having sex with this guy?”. I shuddered & tried not to think about Malini’s nuptials. She was 15 years old. He was 32. She was still a kid. And he was a full-blooded man. Life sometimes sucks. Shanthi sniffled once – just once. It was a heart-breaking sound.
Malini’s younger sister came gliding towards us, with the grace of an eel. 13 years old, she already had the allure of a wood nymph. Innasi told us darkly – “You know, Malini has a 28 year old uncle. They plan to marry him off to this kid”. For once, Innasi looked tormented, not ghoulish. And I nearly liked her at that minute.
Only Shanthi attended the wedding. The rest of us excused ourselves. You could say we didn’t have strong enough stomachs for that.
Fascinating account. Thanks.
April – Thanks for your comment.
More than 20 years have passed since this incident. And I still had a lump in my throat when I typed this up.
I was expecting till the end of the story to see if something would change but then i realised it is not a movie or fiction, it’s reality.
Sujatha – Thanks for your comment.
Sometimes I ask myself if I should have done something to prevent that. I know I was just a kid then & Malini’s parents (that’s not her real name, BTW) would have booted me out of the house. But still I can’t help thinking about it.
My cook told me last year that she was planning to marry her daughter off at 16. I growled nastily & told her that I’ll fire her if she did that. I pay her very well & treat her very decently, so I hope she doesn’t marry her daughter off when she’s a minor. I owe it to Malini.
Priya,
Very intriguing. Obviously, a very sad ending (or beginning) for Malini. I remember few similar incidents during my school time, even college time. One of the brightest minds in our class (Jayasree) quit college in her first year and got married. Her parents were educated and that didn’t provide them a thinking hat. She was the state topper in our school year. I wonder what would happen if many of our young and energetic minds are not squelched!
From the parents perspective, I am sure they are thinking they have their kids best interest in their mind. If the kid is asking for that chocolate that’s going to spoil their teeth, as parents, they say ‘no’. In their minds, they are extending that thought process – kid wants to study, but we know better – substitute any of the following: we can’t afford it, we can’t support them, we are old and we fear we will die in a couple of years, their life will be happy with this person…
If a brain is logically wired, I am sure parents will know when to turn that switch on and start listening to their kids for their inputs. But not everyone has a ‘NT’ as their MBTI middle acronyms. At the same time, I am sure there are cases where the parents want the kids to study, but the kids want to get married and be done with it.
It bothers me a lot that it happens and still continues to happen. I agree with you though. Calling your grandma your MIL, pretty much mutilates the high position a grandma holds.
On a lighter note, you’re kidding right! – you were 15 in 1985. Why do you have to change the year just to make you look younger?
NK – Thanks for your comment.
A state-rank holder got married when she was 17 & quit college?? I mean, why bother getting a state rank then? What was wrong with Jayasree’s parents – I’m assuming they were middle class or above, right? Not exactly lacking funds. And college education is relatively cheap in India! Government colleges offer practically free education.
Old Man! You are 2 years my senior, just remember that. That’s my line & I’m sticking to it
My mother failed in tenth and got married
.. my father was 25, and close relation to her.. (the same uncle relationship)..
But you see.. studying up to tenth itself is a great achievement on those days.. really, its great achievement on looking at how far we have progressed now.. the evolution is apparent in my own family.. my grandma’s brothers went to school, but not her.. and my mother was sent to school, not by my grandma.. but for my grandfather who wrote a letter from singapore, with a quote (even if it is crow, its children are gold.. please convert it in tamil
) .. and my mother’s sister, made her three daughters to complete BE..
Social progress needs time, and some times generations.. (the same holds true for degeneration..) .. I am sure, today, the count of malini’s would be far far less, than your age of innocence..
Also, i wish a post from you, demanding free uniform qualified education to all (alteast the girl child),.. because, today, education is one of the major biting expenses in india.. Definitely, a demand from such a high profile person would be noted down
..
Senthil – Thanks for your comment.
Its good to know that all your 3 cousins are engineers.
Yes, social progress needs time. This social problem persists at the lower classes now, as my cook demonstrated last year. The good news is, its not that prevalent in the middle & upper classes now.
And thanks for your suggestion. Generally, most of us derive inspiration from life when we write. Clear case of art imitating life. Perhaps when my mentoring (of inner city kids) picks up steam, I may observe the ill that you mention. I’ll certainly bear your idea in mind & develop it over a period of time.
Priya, i do agree with you that most of this has changed in the middle and upper classes now. I also had seen one of my classmate whose parents made her quit college(she was a class topper too) and stay home because of eve-teasing, bus stop heroes harassment. It is so ridiculous to see them surrender to these crooks and give up their children’s life and education.
Sujatha – Yeah, I don’t know what to make of these people. If they can’t think of a sensible way to handle eve-teasing, why can’t they ask someone for guidance?
Instead, they ruin their girl’s life. All in the name of family honor. It makes me sick.
Talk about throwing the baby with the bath water! Next time I see such parents, I’m gonna tell them how low I think their IQ is.
Great post Priya. I heard a loud twang in the bottom of my heart when i read this. fortunately, as you pointed out in the comments, it has almost stopped in the middle and upper classes. but it is still happening in the lower classes who number almost 600 million at this point. If you think about it that way, it is monumentally sad.
Actually it didn’t help them save their family honor either, it only brought in unnecessary gossips about the girl and it also took them 7+ years to get her married inspite of ruining her education.
Sukumar, the number does sounds scary.
Sukumar – Thanks for your comment.
“Monumentally sad” – Well said. I wonder how many girls from the lower classes are forced into early marriages even now. Perhaps a very large number. We have miles to go. When people don’t have food to eat, human rights is probably the last thing on their minds.
Sujatha – So, by their foolish behavior, her parents ruined her marriage prospects as well! When will these in-duh-viduals learn to stop being perennially frightened of everything? Hope they got it thru their thick skulls at least now. But the poor girl paid for the folly of her parents.
This gossip & rumor mill is an insidious thing in India. The more afraid you are of it, the more it controls your life.
Sujatha,
let me clarify. What i mean to say is that the 600 million people (not all of them but many of them) are still not educating their women enough, female foeticide is quite prevalent, females being married off and being treated as someone who will eventually goto someone else’s house, dowry related issues, domineering and abusive husbands. I am talking about all of these gender-related issues and not just marrying girls off at 15 which i am sure is happening as well.
Recently i read an article on how the male-female ratio has gone down so much in Haryana that there is a severe shortage of eligible women for marriage. They have now started importing women from Kerala. I guess that part is a good thing for national integration but think about the sadness of the situation. The decades of discrimination against women has reached a scary state. This situation may be true of many of the BhimarDhup states as they are called. Very sad.
Hope that clarifies my point.
i dont know, if its related to this post.. But, this incident took place in my grandma’s village..
One poor family’s daughter was studying ninth.. suddenly she was found to be pregnant.. the doctor who confirmed it asked the parents like this “unga pillaya schoolku thaaney anupchinga ?” .. when even educated doctors are asking like this, we can imagine ordinary people..
This is one of the major reasons, why parents are afraid of girl child.. honour is something, that still holds a place in this society..
I often looked for reasons for all these problems.. one thing i could find is, the absense of social regulatory body.. the beurocracy is completely isolated from common man, that the former just exploits the later..
So, when the society becomes leaderless, it suffers from such problems.. Just compared to how the beurocrats in western nations behave, with societal vision.. we lack that aspect..
Priya, Yep
When people surrender to things like gossip,fear,greed etc. they lose control of their lives.
Sukumar, 600 million people suffering from domesticated gender related issues is a very big number. As you had said it is a very monumental number.
what do you mean by importing women from Kerala. i don’t get it. Are they looking for keralite brides? OR are they adopting kids from Kerala?
Senthil – Its a simple question of trust. How many girls of a certain age in India become pregnant? There’s tremendous stigma attached to it. Perhaps 1%? 2%?
Girls (& boys) have a 2% chance of belonging to the MENSA club for high IQ – that serves as a comparison point. If parents want to insult their daughters by suspecting them & monitoring them like hawks, no governing body can change that. The remaining 98% will also suffer, because parents will do what they want on the sly. That’s what I think.
Shame on that doctor for making pregnancy the sole responsibility of a woman.
Sukumar – Thanks for the clarification.
Sujatha – Haryanvi men have started marrying women from Kerala, because there are more women than men in Kerala. Plus, there are more Hindi speaking brides-to-be than, say, Tamil Nadu.
@Priya
Wow, that definitely sounds like a national integration project by itself as Sukumar has mentioned.
Sujatha – Yes, the brides from Kerala seemed to be very happy with their husbands. It was gratifying to see how they got plenty of respect from their in-laws – Keralite women are perhaps the most emancipated of all Indian women, so perhaps that influenced the treatment they got.
Priya.. its not just about pregnancy.. there variety of dimensions to it.. like family values, chastity, etc.. as your post title says “Age of Innocence”.. we have to protect that innocence, from perpetuators.. the onus is with the parents only..
Whatever you say equality, etc etc.. women have their natural biological disadvantages..
I heard, that girl has crossed the possibilities of abortion.. so no other way except to deliver that child.. leave alone, the society & other rumours.. is it not the worst psychological damage to that girl .. at that innocent age, where she committed the gross mistake without knowing the effects..
Long back, i came across the following link..
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2538090.ece?Submitted=true
So, these aspects should also be considered and appropriate environment should be created so that, girls get necessary support and advice whenever needed.. It depends partially on law enforcing agencies, the society.. its a collective responsibility of the society..
And once this bottleneck is cleared, the remaining section of the people will also be encouraged to send their girl children to studies, and the girls will progress much better than boys… (as already, the school results are showing..
)
It is highly dependent on education I think. I observed for some reason, many girls from Brahmin caste get married late. They even finish double MA. I almost never met any brahmin girl (in my circle) who got married earlier than 18.
Also, urbanization seems to be an important factor. In cities it may be less frequent. (not sure how it will be in slums etc).
Priya suspicion is very bad. But what measures are there in the system to prevent girls from being safe. Are the girls given proper sex education?
Escorting due to suspicion is deeply insulting but I strongly do recommend for safety. I hear so much of eve teasing etc these days.
http://news.google.com/news?q=ayesha+murder&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.google:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn
BTW, my high school sweetheart got married after her 11th grade to her uncle. On the other hand, one of the prettiest girl I met during my high school, a moslem girl, with a beautiful persian name…sings like Lata Mangeshkar, dances like a peacock….committed suicide on my 10th class maths exam. Reason – she liked an idiot loafer who does nothing but smokes pot all day long apart from attending a madarassa. Her father warned her not to meet that idiot. What a waste of life!!!
Vamsi – Thanks for your comment.
You make an excellent point about sex education. Whenever the educators try to introduce it, most morons throw a hissy fit & the idea is shelved. A moron actually said, “Why teach kids about sex? Didn’t we have sex once we were married without being taught?” – This shows you how abysmally ignorant some of the protesters are.
See – Malini was chaperoned. Isn’t that enough? She was already given adequate safety. If her parents were concerned, perhaps they should have hired 2 body-guards to up the ante – I don’t know!! But, getting her married or stopping her education – those seem like brain farts to me.
About your classmate that committed suicide – What a waste of life & talent. Perhaps the addict she loved didn’t even realize she was gone. Teens do the weirdest things. And their brains aren’t capable of real long-range thinking, so they lack perspective. Her parents, family & friends – how miserable this would have made them! My heart goes out to them.
Priya,
Good one.This post reminded me of the girls who are suffering because of the stupid decision by the elders.I knew atleast 3 of them who are still suffering.One was my junior in school, 15 year old & topper in the schooo , married to 35 year old.After 5 struggling years, she walked out of the marriage.Now finished her degree and working.We all are so proud of her for doing that, but still parents are not in contact with her.Another one is still a sad story.This is my about my own cousin Deepa.She was only 14 , when her father died and left a hefty fortune behind for her and her younger sis.But her mother’s family didn’t want the money to go to any other family.So they made her marry her disabled uncle and promised er that she get to complete atleast pre degree.But the old fool raped her and got her pregnant.He tortured her with cigarette burns and abuse, all in the presence of her own mother and grandmother.Finally at the age of 25, she somehow gathered up some courage and left the house, even leaving behind the kid.Now we all don’t know where she is.The irony is , most of them are from upper middle class family and well educated family.I am just glad that, in midst of all these happening, my mom was strong enough to fight for my studies with my grand parents and made me finish up my graduation before marriage.
Excellant Post Priya…
We have dozens ofMalinis even now …things have not changed much….When i was in class 10 My aunts neighbour ‘s daughter who was also my school hmate got married…things did not imporved much when we going for Engg classes in Clas 11 she was going for Maternity sessions wit her Gyn and he had a kid by the time we entered 12…she was also married to her uncle..how sad that a girl’s education nipped in bud.
Another friend of mine he married a girl who was widowed by 20…then imagine what age she was married in..Inspite of all our education our society is yet to grow up….
Senthil – You make an excellent point about setting up centers where these girls can get advice & guidance. I’ve read about such centers in the developed nations & they work very well. I’m all for support cells from NGOs, increasing awareness. Already, the results are there for people to see & they are encouraging. As you say, when people from the lower strata see the results, they’ll come to our side.
Thanks for the link – I’ll check it out.
What you quote are all the apparent reasons for meting out a different treatment to women. Provide more safety to the child. Instill your values in your boys & girls. But – I’m sure you agree that – There’s no justification whatsoever to get a minor girl married to a guy twice her age. Or for stopping her education.
I made a point on how 98% of girls don’t have teen pregnancies. Is this the way a society should operate – Treat everyone suspiciously just because of a few exceptions to the norm! When we write a program, we code the normal logic first. We shouldn’t code a program that only handles the exceptions rigorously.
I’m sure you know of girls in villages that go thru hell because they missed a period. Irregularity in periods is common, especially for teens. But, all their parents can think of is pregnancy. Some parents need biology lessons
But, things are changing & that should give us hope.
Society should also teach boys family values & chastity, right? Boys don’t have “biological disadvantages” – i.e., even if they have sex, they won’t be outed by a bulging belly or a missing period. So, they enjoy more rights. The fear of being found out – more than the fear of doing the wrong thing.
Because of these “biological disadvantages” the society stigmatizes victims of rape. And that’s very, very sad.
Maheswari – Thanks for your comment.
About the school topper who was married to a 35 year old: Are these people even civilized? What kind of despicable scum masquerades as parents & marries their talented daughter – to a man old enough to be her father? And that marriage didn’t work from what you say. So the pond scum calling herself parents didn’t do any home-work before zeroing in on the “groom”. I’m very glad that the girl walked out of that marriage. You are all rightfully proud of her. So, her “parents” don’t speak to her anymore? Big deal. Good riddance, actually.
About Deepa – That’s a heart-breaking tale, but I’m glad she got away. I only hope she’s in a better place now. The mother & grandmother watched the bastard burning her with cigarette butts? They didn’t realize that the uncle might rape the girl? Oh, they knew – they didn’t care, that’s all. What kind of pathetic low-lifes are they? Well, they must be low-lifes! They were fixated on the “money” not leaving their house. They didn’t understand that their daughter might leave the house! Talk about screwed up priorities. Oh, I’m so mad now I can’t see straight!
Karthik – Thanks for your comment.
What’s this fixation in marrying girls off to uncles? In this day & age! Haven’t these people heard of genetic defects & how they’ll be perpetuated by marrying close relatives?
Do you know what that girl is doing now, Karthik? Please let me know if you have any information. I’ll feel better if I know she has a happy married life.
Given the stigma attached to widows, I’m glad your friend married one. From the way you’ve written about this, I can see you are rightfully proud of him. And yes – What kind of retards marry their daughter off when she’s still in high school? Whatever be the reason.
Priya,
Almost every single person who commented cited at least one story of such child marriages. Doesnt it look like a bigger social problem than we think?
Vamsi – Yes, that’s what Sukumar said too. Its unusual enough for us to remember, which is a good thing. But its not as rare as we think them to be – if most readers remember similar cases from middle/upper stratas of society – which can’t be good at all.
We can educate the lower strata of the society. But what do we do with the middle & upper classes? What’s wrong with these losers that get their 14 year old daughter married to a 40 year old man? Who then rapes her?
There are no easy answers in a country that thinks parents can do anything to their children as long as its “for their good”. Here are some suggestions:
We (general public) can take a stance by speaking out on behalf of the affected minors. There are NGOs that will willingly house a minor for a few weeks, while the problem is sorted out. But usually, the children are very afraid of their parents & may refuse to cooperate.
Perhaps social ostracism will work! Treat the delinquent parents like a pile of crap & avoid them completely, hissing loudly when they pass by. I know about a case where the daughter-in-law was ill-treated. A local group of do-gooders staged a street play in front of that house, heckling her in-laws & telling them thru the play that police action will be taken. The girl was treated much better afterwards.
Fear & loss of face. That’s what seems to work, when education & a broad mind fail to take root.
I am not really sure what happened to girl Priya as my aunt changed house after that…I hope that she is happy and well setteled….
Yes I am really happy and proud of my pal….for once some was a change rather than asking the society to change….
Social ostracism might work…but the problem none of these marriages happen in secret ..they take place in front of the whole world..we remain mute witness to it …they day some of us take a stance then things will change ….
Karthik – Very true. Each of us can be on constant vigil for any 1 cause & confront the perpetrators. At least we can try.
This custom prevails only in Tamilnadu (waht about other parts of Southindia?). In a girls’d marriage, the first choice of bridegrrom will be her maternal uncle, then a first cousin, only then they will consider other choices.
Even in Northindia, marrying uncle is unthinkable for them. I was in a hostel for a while in Delhi and my hostelmates where shocked to know this custom. They are to be considered next to mom, they said. (sorry i dont have an uncle to realise how supportive he could be or what would he do like our parents. just a thought, as i have seen my friends who have uncles!)
There are many drawbacks in marrying a blood relative, that too maternal uncle, dont u think gene jumping would have occured and the girl would have inherited much of his qualities? leave alone genetic disorders for the child thru this marriage!
This should be abolished i guess and child marriage (below 18) should be considered as a criminal offence and those who report should be rewarded heavily!
all these harrasments to those girls/kids make me sad, they wudn’t have had the courage to walk out of the marriage those days! they shd have killed their so-called husbands cum uncles and walked out, that wud have been better for me to read.
Rupika – Thanks for your comment.
Yes, in the North people don’t marry their blood relatives. And really, an uncle is sort of like a father, I think.
The “Hindu Marriage Act” has several clauses on marital taboos – as in, what relatives can’t marry each other. If the govt tries to ban uncles marrying their nieces, there’ll be a furore that ancient customs have been insulted. So, it will be an unpopular move for any govt.
So, while marrying a maternal uncle seems odd to you & me – we should probably focus more on the real social evil, which is forcing girls into marriage before they turn 18. You can’t vote, but you can marry?? There are laws governing the minimum age of marriage & consent, but in how many cases does the police take action?
I don’t approve of killing – rather an extreme & violent step
But I’ll welcome the girls running away to a safe haven. But, generally, there are no safe havens.
Police stations – not at all safe. Friends, Teachers or Relatives – Parents can file a case of kidnapping & this will scare most people. Any NGO run home like the “Banyan” or Mahila Samajes or even some journalists – Only choices so far. Better that, than the girl running away on her own to a big, bad city & ending up in a brothel turning tricks.
But most girls will be terrified of “spoiling” their name & accede to such bogus marriages. And end up ruining their lives.
“Hindu Marriage Act” – Badly needs updation, that too it should match the progressive Gen next views!!! Why dont they outsource & get it done?
“Killing” – Nothing works , none can help out see, u tried many alternatives! My murder plan alone works and is safer for those girls, else they cant escape from their parents/grandparents/uncle turned husband’s clutches!
“parents/grandparents/uncle turned husband’s clutches”, they r supposed to be the safe relatives for a girl! But see many of the, becoming money-hungry monsters! These girls shd confront/put their foot down i say!
@ Rupika …
I beg to differ .I dont think we need to change the marriage act …I feel it should be scrapped …I am not if favour of Marriage Acts for individual relegion..Even the govt changes the marriage act one can change relegion and commit the same sins…
My opinion is this if Polgamy is banned for Hindus then its should me banned for all relgions…(I may be digressing)
We should have common marriage laws…I mean there was case some time back when septugenarian from Saudi married a 12 year old girl and the left her…is this fair ?
Rupika – First of all, I have to object to your repeated references to killing. Murder is a crime & that’s not a solution. I don’t want to treat any violent crime as a joke. That line of discussion is making me very uncomfortable.
I agree that laws can be updated, but not at the rate at which you mention. In many cases, its not the laws that need changes – but the affected people. If they start asserting their rights, at least some of their problems will go away.
Karthik – What I think about religious laws is: Once you let people have different laws for different religions, how can we ever repeal that? That’s fraught with serious problems.
I agree that that’s a different discussion thread altogether. Perhaps we can request some lawyer to write a post on the history of the Indian legal system & how religious laws were put together.
I agree Priya..I undestand porblems with the Unifrom Civil code…but now marriage laws involves huma rights too so i feel we can or rather we should have common codes
Karthik – Perhaps a Uniform Civil Code can be our aspiration for the future. But in the current political climate, it won’t be possible – and it will create more harm than good.
I fear such change will only alienate muslims more. And increase the chasm between them & Hindus. I believe the priority is for us to reach out to the minorities & the under-privileged, treat them with compassion and make them feel secure & happy.
I understand your point about human rights. Perhaps we can focus on other human rights issues & solve them, before we attack this problem.
UCC is a harsh one. It is like a shock treatment. Unless Muslim woman are all educated and can think of various social evils in their religion, we cannot push such laws. In India, as we know, Muslims are much more male dominated religion than others. I would not say that it will just alienate them, it will make them radical which is already an issue in the sub-continent. ( How is it in Kerala? How well educated are Muslim woman and why are there no social changes closer to UCC in Kerela where literacy is so high)
When I read about the child marriages I could not resist from comparing how it was 120 years back. We used to have Kanyasulkam (Dowry given by the grooms). Old Brahmin men used to give this Kanyasulkam to greedy fathers of the young girls and marry them. Within very few years, these old men will die and leave the widows. Either they will work like coolies in the in-laws house or be back to the parents house. As we know the widows were(are) considered taboo, they used to be abused, molested etc. Back in 1892, Gurazada Appa Rao, one of the foremost reformist writers in the Telugu Literature wrote the play with the same name “Kanyasulkam”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanyasulkam
Side note – I read the book at least 100 times and also watched the movie with NTR and Savithri. Savithri’s action in that movie is one of the best. She can be considered as one of the best actresses on the Indian Screen.
Vamsi – Yes, I don’t think UCC is a priority for us. There are many other social ills that are pressing needs. Many muslims may turn radical with UCC. But, I’m equally (if not more) worried about what the Hindus will do with UCC – many of them may use it as a bludger to beat up the muslims. We’ll have a serious problem in our hands.
Good to know about this movie, “Kanyasulkam”. I’ll see if I can get its DVD with sub-titles. Savitri was an amazing actor, no doubt. Most people that like good movies like her from the neck up
I remember Amitabh mentioning in an interview that he counts Savitri amongst the all-time top 10 leading ladies of Indian cinema.
Priya,
By just this post and ensuing discussion, you have rejuvenated the awareness amongst the bloggers on this site. That is an excellent start.
It goes without saying that what happened to your friend and what is still happening with countless other children (yes not young woman/adult but children) is grotesque.
If you know of any organization that works to prevent this kind of injustice, please let me know. Even if I cannot physically help, I will try and do so monetarily or in any other way I can.
Ganesh
Ganesh – Thanks for your comment.
What an appropriate word, “grotesque”! That’s exactly how it felt back then.
I’ve only interacted with “Banyan” & they mostly help women who’ve been abandoned, abused and/or are mentally unstable. They do fine work.
I’ve heard a lot about “Tulir”, which deals mainly with Child Abuse. And “Manushi” which has a much broader objective. I’ll try to find some more details about them & do a post on this BLOG. Thanks for your offer to help – that’s clearly the next logical step.
Besides the sad story of Malini, I wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your story. It was visceral in its simplicity; your writing is so crisp, clear, elegant in the way it conveys sentiment and imagery. I felt the emotion behind it and got choked up too; I think it is a rare quality to be able to capture a moment so well, particularly something that is not fiction but an experience taken out of your life. I’ve found in my own work that recounting memories is particularly hard and takes me twice as long as writing fiction, even when I don’t anticipate that I would be infused with emotion – it just happens, it’s part of reexperiencing a snapshot in time.
I’ve already read a couple of your other posts and hope to read more of your writing in the future. It’s beautiful.
Elisa – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
Certain events in our life are seared on to our minds. And those corners of our minds never heal completely. I’ll always wonder if I should have tried to help Malini.
Some of the events narrated by Maheswari in the comments section are horrifying & gut-wrenching. They make Malini’s wedding look like a fairy tale wedding with Prince Charming.
Priyaka – No I didn’t joke, as you know I get furious on reading certain things, and the harassments faced by women. But had I made you feel bad, ayam sorry, no offense meant, but that’s defnly nto a joke. I feel sad for these girls who can neither save their marriage nor themselves!
I have had few classmates in St Joseph’s School, Tanjore, just behind your school, who got married even when they were in their 10th. My teachers used to call them and tease them I guess, that was a big hit in our school then. Now, when I think of it, I feel sad for those girls, what will they be now? Will they be working/ or just dish washing, cooking, running erand for their huby and in-laws, and baby sitting? Many of them were studying better than me! Hope those girls are peaceful in their life.
We can no way try and help them, since their parents/relatives wouldn’t let us do so! Still I tried telling my classmate to continue her studies after 10th, hope she did!!!!
@ Karthik PK – Yepp, that’s a good option, having a common marriage law.
NRI marriages in India, is another big issue, mainly in some places of Northindia, half of the village girls have been duped.
Now, in UK there is aqualifying english language exam for women who are married to NRIs settled there. Only if they qualify, they can come there with their spouse. But I dont know how many would know such an exam exists before they marry.
Rupika – Let me make it crystal clear: A joke about killing is in bad taste, but can be excused. While talking about it seriously is deplorable & callous.
Its not about making me feel bad, its about saying totally inappropriate things in a public forum. Anger doesn’t give you the license to say anything you want.
I will not discuss this distasteful topic on killing any more.
A very sad reality that exists even todays in parts of our country, or world. We should work on educating the parents better.
Meenaks – Thanks for your comment.
Sometimes, I don’t know how to get things thru the thick skulls of people. They keep on bleating that in their community, girls are married by 16; Or that the girl is a slow learner & hence there’s no point in sending her to school; That some elderly relative wants to see the girl married before s/he dies. Any number of inane reasons.
I’m now trying to get my tailor to send his daughter to college. He wants to, but his wife thinks the girl will be corrupted by evil influences.
The assumption is, women need protection. I’m all for care. Protection beyond a certain age, NO. How then will they become adults, capable of managing their life?
And why the hell are the girls not asserting themselves as individuals? I have no clue.
“Elderly relating wanting to see the girl married before they die” is the most ridiculous argument of all. What rubbish..!!
Meenaks – I know, how dumb. An elderly relative once told my dad – “Its my dying wish that Priya should marry R. Now, promise me you’ll do that”. R being a cousin of mine!
I was furious. Before I could banish that hag to Pluto, my father stepped in. I love what he told that interfering woman – “Certainly I won’t make a dumb promise like that. Its upto Priya & R to decide whom to marry. Not yours. So, could you please stop trying to control their lives?”
She just shut up & never mentioned the subject again. I think these foolish people actually think they have an obligation as “elders” to make such requests. They delude themselves that people love such asinine requests.
Both R & me are married, but not to each other
Even now, me & R’s wife snigger about that nosy relative – Who, as a matter of fact, is alive & well still – 18 years after she made her dying wish 
/** There are many other social ills that are pressing needs. Many muslims may turn radical with UCC. But, I’m equally (if not more) worried about what the Hindus will do with UCC – many of them may use it as a bludger to beat up the muslims. **/
Priya.. i thought of desisting from commenting on this point.. but since, this is repeatedly mentioned, i would like to express my views..
I hope, you know about shah bano case.. a muslim woman, reached up to supreme court for justice.. but the congress, changed the law itself, to appease the mullahs who control the entire muslim society.. the worst injustice to a woman, because of a religion..
Btw, i strongly support Uniform Civil Code.. If in pakistan, polygamy is banned.. why not in india? Are muslims above all laws? Is demanding equal status to all, a tool to beat up muslims.. If muslims turn radical with UCC, where is the fault? either with them or with UCC or with the much maligned Hindus? I am seeing another gandhi in you
, in blind appeasement..
This blind appeasement is the worst thing that harm the muslim society.. Let’s give them equal status, and let them live with dignity.. not in the illusion of pity or vicitimsation phobia created by that bloody congress.. please come out of the media illusion..
when i last went to my village, my mother went to attend the funeral of the mother-in law of our village tahsildar, who is a muslim, and one of few muslim families to move freely with other communities.. while most other families, isolate themselves for obvious reasons.. the hindus have no objection to mingle with muslim society.. but its the mullahs who isolate the general muslim public.. in kashmir, the muslims and hindus, have common marital relationships.. who drove those peace loving communities away?
I am really surprised, when you are everready, quick to comment on even minute drawbacks of hindu society, you completely ignore major problems in muslim society, where 90% of women are married off well before 16 years.. why not a single word against those issues.. does the term muslim, blinds you from all those evils?
PS: I was happy, that this post was going on without any controversary.. that doesnt long last ..
Coming back to normal discussion..
/** “Elderly relating wanting to see the girl married before they die”… **/
My grandfather did this trick two years before.. (when i was 25).. i just told him in a gentle fun “I have seen these scenes in shivaji films”
.. (thanks to our vivek’s comedy in film “Run” ).. i think, my grandfather too liked the way i said..
Btw, seeing the marriage of the sons/ grandsons, is once a life time happiness to those elders.. I feel, we should deal with them gently..
Priya.. similar to banyan, i visited one such NGO in ooty.. the name is “SARAS Trust”.. they take care of destitute women, particularly affected women..
Ooty, being tourist place, has been a haven for bad people too.. the tribal girls are beautiful and innocent, that outsiders, come and cheat them (with promise of marriage), and run away.. In many cases, the girl will become pregnant, unable to chase the accused.. the family used to abandon such girls.. This SARAS trust takes care of such women, provide legal & moral guidance, and train them in some vocational skills.. in many cases, they get details of those cheaters, trace them, and book them before law.. and some times, they make those guy marry the girl he cheated..
They are so famous all over Nilgiris, that when any one finds any destitute women, they would immediately call this NGO..
When i visited their place, i was really shocked, to see many typical cases they handled.. they described me about those histories with all the photos.. there was most peculiar case, which i can you mail you personally if you wish.. (since i mentioned the NGO name, i dont want to make these things public)..
In earlier comments of this post, you had mentioned the incident of “marrying kerala girls” as national integration.. but, that’s not true.. there is a sad story of poverty and abuse in them..
in one of typical case, a flesh broker (hope you understand), cheated a kerala girl, on the guise of marriage.. then he brought her to ooty, kept her in isolated room for more than 40 days.. tortured her, with cigarette burns.. some how, she managed to escape and reached the busstand, and this SARAS trust came to her rescue after being informed..
They showed me the photo.. cant believe, she is 18 years.. that bloody guy had completely destroyed her.. i heard that she was beautiful before this incident..
After returning, i spoke to deepak of M2K, and he immediately arranged Rs.5200.. and they bought two tailoring machines out of it..
I request you to visit that place, if possible..
Senthil – You thought of desisting, but didn’t? Next time you feel like pouring out your hatred for the minorities & it is unrelated to the post – Feel free to desist. I will not tolerate irrelevant ranting & raving. It ruins the blogging atmosphere for my readers.
You see another Gandhi in me – blind appeasement. As long as we are calling each other names, I see a Veer Savarkar in you – blind hatred.
>>I am really surprised, when you are everready, quick to comment on even minute drawbacks of hindu society, you completely >>ignore major problems in muslim society, where 90% of women are married off well before 16 years.. why not a single word >>against those issues.. does the term muslim, blinds you from all those evils?
>>
>>PS: I was happy, that this post was going on without any controversary.. that doesnt long last ..
You – who can find great joy in the minorest things in Hinduism, can’t find a single positive thing about muslims or Christians. You even imagine conspiracies where none exist. And you ask me why I write about legitimate problems in Hindus? Do you know what the word “introspection” means? The word “logic”?
What do we say about your BLOG then? Where you’ve baselessly blamed the ASI for hiding evidence about Ram? Doesn’t your BLOG host many (not all) hateful posts one more controversial than another?
I don’t need permission from the likes of you to post my legitimate views on my BLOG. At least, I’m not a hate monger spewing venom.
Further irrelevant comments from you which show zero inrospection will be ignored or marked as spam. I’m tired of hearing the same irrelevant, venomous, hateful, self-serving rants over & over again.
My readers deserve better than that.
/** The assumption is, women need protection. I’m all for care. Protection beyond a certain age, NO. How then will they become adults, capable of managing their life? **/
That’s correct in one perspective.. But, the parents worry that their daughter might be misguided.. (its not a question of trust.. rather, a genuine fear of happenings)..
I will give you a statistics in one of the most famous college in vellore (hope you could guess)..
In the nearby medical college, the dean called up the college authorities, and warned them, about the unusual reporting of abortions happening there.. as per the statistics, there are around 750 abortions happening every year from that collge.. (i was told of this by my friend’s brother who studied there)..
Even i would not send my sister to that college, after hearing this… just recalling gandhi’s words… “when wealth is lost, nothing is lost.. when health is lost.. some thing is lost.. when character is lost.. everything is lost.. ” ..
What’s your opinion about this.
Senthil – dear fellow – you’re never one to shy away from expressing your opinion, even if it may be construed as irrelevant by some – they are in the minority anyway, and let’s swat them away, right! (in response to your comment http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/02/27/the-age-of-innocence/#comment-2308 )
Uniform Civil Code / secular civil laws – what do these people not understand! They seem to think that “Civil” and “Secular” are the most important aspects in them. Shame on them. Let’s not give the minorities any choices! Look where that has led us – democracy, shremocracy!. Let’s make it clear to the minorities – they have their choice or they are entitled to an opinion as long as it fits the Hindu choice or opinion. There, take it or leave it, right!
If they don’t like it and they agitate, whose fault is that. It’s their fault, right! Since it is their fault, we can use whatever means necessary to stop the agitation. Wow! Brilliant! That would get rid of the minorities and we don’t have to worry about them.
What if the world turns it’s back on us? What if there’s a uniform “food” code that gets created and we fall in the minority and are forced to eat meat because the majority does eats meat. Wow! that would be devious, now, wouldn’t it? Let’s come up with a plan to avoid being in the minority on anything, right!
Good luck to us! Let the rest of the minorities go to the dogs. Heil Senthil!
Inappropriate & inflammatory comments deleted. – Author.
Inappropriate & inflammatory comments deleted. – Author.
Senthil, The abuse everywhere. There is abuse in school, home, office, career, life etc. Where ever you go the strong will intimidate the weak in one form or other. It it is not physical, it would be legal or intellectual abuse. There is no solution for this. Also the laws in any country are very unique and reflect the values of the society and culture. We need not imitate the Pakistan of all the countries in the world.
We do know what is difference between right and wrong. We are also capable of thinking. Right?
Muslim Minorities (for lack of better word I am using this 20% population is not really a minority in number terms but %wise they are still one), by your own words you told that they are usually controlled by mullahs etc. That could be right. In Shao Bano case, who is right? Definitely not Congress or Left. They have always misplaced priorities. What about BJP, they too do not care for the real issue than getting some political capital. The collective intellectual power of that community is less because of the state of education in that community. What is the solution? Laws that intimidate them and push towards towards radicalism or dealing this as a sensitive subject and improve the situation. Hindutva parties dont pay any respect to that fact. The sudden imposing of any rule however right it is is plain wrong if 20% of population either themselves or by the influence of their leaders feel intimidated. Now the solution is not imposing a right but wrong law rather than addressing real issues). The abuse in muslims community is correct. I am acknowledging that. Already existing laws if enforced will be sufficient to solve many such abuses.
In Bengal where left is ruling, there is not much protection for muslims (Rizanuar Rehaman Case) and in the Gujarat where the BJP is ruling there is no protection for the minorities. So where do they have?
Why bring Gandhi in this. He is definitely above this. He believed in something and gave life. By being killed by radicalized Hindu, he became real matyr. (Dont bring failures of Mahatma. He is above and beyond any single entity that lived on this earth. He is a true leader whose practices appealed to Left, Right, Middle, Black, Brown and White across the globe). Other than Cuban Revolution all major revolutions are influenced by Gandhian thought. Recently we as part of Immigration Voice proved that his principles work in 21st century also. Check this if you find time http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=106384&postcount=683 )
Having said that if there are some luxuries the minorities might be enjoying like Haj subsidies, some special laws etc, unless the community is not prepared to accept those laws we as a country cannot pass them. Like I told earlier, we need to protect our minorities and strive hard to bring them into mainstream. If we dont, we are going to keep the security of our country at risk. If not for their sake, we have to do that for our and our children’s future.
Priya – Your post bought memories of my school days. When I was in 7th std I had a classmate called Rizawana. She was very good in studies (among the top 5 in the class) and both her parents were professors. They discontinued her studies and got her married when she was in 7th Std!!!! I could never get over the shock. Similarly in 9th std, another one of my classmate got married.
I really wonder if parents have the best interest of their children when they do this kind of things. It feels more like being in a hurry to shrug your responsibility. What kind of life do they think their daughters would lead!!
I think things will change only when parents think the marraige is not the ultimate end for a girl. The important thing is for her to be able to be independant, happy and in a position to take charge of her destiny.
Archana – Thanks for your comment.
I’m astounded to hear that a pair of professors did this to their daughter – when she was in her 7th grade! What kind of maniacs do this?
And another in the 9th grade
It seems to me that a considerable segment of parents still think that their daughters are garbage. The sooner you get it out of the house, the better it will be.
Almost every single reader recalled such “daughter dumping” incidents.
Hi,
I again to reach this site from Aryan Invasion Theory – through catchy phrase “Age of Innocence” !! infectious !! I am sorry …Please permit to add a quick note !!
I see the examples cited are 10-20 years ago timeline happening !! True …that is a dark age and impact has been felt and realised
However, a very good foundation were made by Vidhyasagar ( first educationist to campaigned for women education ) + above him, is Poet Bharathiar .
And much has changed now in every sphere of the activity including Marriage for girl child, girls and woman .
To begin with girl child were never relished, now that thought has been erased by New Generation where everyone are equal
Girls were never allowed to attend school or college …Impact of this has been experienced…hence now all girls in rural or urban are allowed to continue education
Girls were branded only as Home-maker …This myth has been broken by many – famous of then Kiran Bedi + she is also a Home-maker and there are several of them including Nooyi and famous astronaut .
Girls were not given a share of the property at all for flimsy reasons. Supreme Court has given a ruling that all Children have equal rights whether it is Boy or Girls – thereby making Girls(daughters) on par with boys (sons)
In Marriage, the opinion of the girls were not never heard of during alliance and they are forced to accept the alliance . Now their opinion are sought and parents attempt a buy-in before proceeding further to finalize the alliance . There may 0.5 % deviation …Incessant campaign were done by Govt and many social organisations including Kiran Bedi and it has worked excellently .
Earlier, child needs to continue to indicate father’s name as Initials when father is divorced …However, Govt has changed the law allowing that a child hs the right to indicate Mother name as Initials instead of father ….this is great enlightened in the Age of Innocence
That being the situation, discussion on the Dark Age of Innocence needs to revisited or rather discarded . or did I visualise incorrectly the discussion …if so please enlighten !!
I hv also a suggestion – how to make this Age of Innocence to shine brighter , how to help girls and woman to handle marriage, family, work-home life balance, career development, how to fight the divorce cases etc ..
Thank you ….
AMV – Thanks for your comment & thanks for stopping by.
First of all, what’s wrong in writing about a 20 year old incident? The fact that things have improved since then doesn’t negate what happened in 1985. Its my prerogative as a writer to record events as they happened – be it 20, 200 or 2000 years back. I have to disagree with your mistaken notion that History should be forgotten just because we find that distasteful now.
If that’s the case, we don’t have to read about the holocaust. That happened before 1945 & Germans treat the Jewish people much better now! If you think 1985 is ancient history, you can’t write about Bharati who died in 1921. We would have to dismantle history.
BTW, please read the comments section. Most of my readers are younger than me & they’ve recounted several similar incidents from their school days. Malinis are still around.
“All” girls are now continuing their education? How many high school drop-outs should I show you? Things are pretty bad, especially for the lower strata.
Kiran Bedi was around even back in 1985. Even in 1985, we had Indira Gandhi, Sheela Rani Chungath, Ambika Soni, Mohsina Kidwai, Bachendri Pal, P.T.Usha, Shiny Abraham, Smita Patil & Shabana Azmi. We also had Malinis. The presence of some successful women is proof – that there are some successful women. That’s all.
Supreme Court made the ruling about property way before 1985. Likewise, Vidyasagar & Bharati lived ages ago. So, things haven’t changed in the past 20 years because of any of that. Though everyone would agree that the status of women is better now.
Thanks for your suggestion on a new post. Unfortunately, those suggestions don’t interest me. I’ll certainly keep them in mind.
AmV
I do agree with Priya. Althought situations has gotten better in the past 20 years, it hasn’t reached or changed to the level it should have been for the 21st century. Compared to the progress of the country in other areas we still have a long way to go in terms of women’s education, liberty to choose their life or partner,making their life’s decision especially in the lower sectors,minority communties and villages. Most of the stories that have been written here happened in cities and in families with educated parents, i wonder what will be the case in illiterate,below poverty line families.
There are lots of women who stick to their life\husbands inspite of their daily trauma because they don’t have a way to survive. If only they were educated enough to get a job they would move out and live independently. That is why these early marriages(below 20) before the girl completes her basic education is a big social issue.
Sujatha – Thanks.
AmV sees all the positive things happening in India & thinks – why talk about the past? Let’s focus on the here & now. I agree with him that we need to be upbeat about the future. But his request to a writer to discard a real life story – where I did not pontificate about how bad women have it in India – is nothing but censorship.
In his eagerness, he even includes Sunita Williams to the list of Indian women who reached great heights. Williams has an American mother, she grew up in the US & she’s a US citizen. No way we can claim credit for her accomplishments.
Priya, you are right. The incidents I posted about are in 1990s and some are even recent.
Vamsi – Yeah, I saw that AmV has also claimed credit for Indira Nooyi. Nooyi works in the US!! Yeah, she did her under-grad in India. So, we take credit for her success in the US?? Where she’s lived for the past 30 years I think?
If someone says Indian women in India have a better life now, shouldn’t they give more examples of women who did all this great stuff in India?
I do agree that the lot of women has improved. But as Sujatha says, its far from being perfect, so we should never forget the past. Only then can we move confidently towards the future.
I just bumped on one of Nobel Laurette Amartya Sen’s controversial article in the New York Review of Books entitled “More Than 100 Million Women Are Missing”, analyzing the mortality impact of unequal rights between the genders in the developing world, particularly Asia. It is an interesting read especially where he relates working women and life expectency.
http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/gender/Sen100M.html
Hi, Thank you for comments …Priya Raju, Vamsi, Sujatha…Intention of stating to revisit is to move forward and find ways and means to overcome …Reaction to the real-life situations is needed ..History needs to be learnt just not to repeat it
…for instance “…There are lots of women who stick to their life\husbands inspite of their daily trauma because they don’t have a way to survive. If only they were educated enough to get a job they would move out and live independently. That is why these early marriages(below 20) before the girl completes her basic education is a big social issue”.
How to handle this situation is the hour of the need across all strata of society and this is request for enlightened audience like this forum to suggest and formulate – well I agree that this is interesting for Priya Raju …No issues !!
Sure, taking credit of Sunita Williams or Nooyri achievement is incorrect – however, influence it brought to the rural parents are tremedous and hopefully these two achievement acts a cataylst ….this is intention .
Intention is not to censorship but build a repository of positive reaction to build
Thank you for the comments ..Bye …
AmV – I agree that Nooyi & Williams inspire Indian women. And I also agree that we need to find ways & means of improving the status of women.
Where I have a problem is this. I allude to a problem by narrating a real life incident – and you think I should rather write about the solution. Because that’s the need of the hour. You also want me to “discard” the event. I’m sorry – That is censorship, perhaps a milder form.
According to you, the onus of providing solutions rests with the person that speaks out about a problem. I politely disagree. There are millions of Indians that don’t speak about such “negative” things – read shameful things we are guilty of. And you think the silent spectators don’t have to do a thing. Which is why many Indians don’t speak about problems – because they’ll be asked to also fix it.
I feel that by mentioning problems, I’m making traditional people uneasy. That’s precisely the idea – to jolt people from their comfort zone & make them do some soul searching. But since this is rather uncomfortable, people want me to not mention such painful things. So they tell me, why don’t you write about “positive” things – meaning, please be very circumspect & very indirect, we don’t want any criticism about our way of life.
Please note that I simply narrated the incident as it happened. Any inferences were derived by the readers. I didn’t harangue the readers about the evils of child marriage.
Of course I’m very angry about what happened! I want women to be angry & say “Enough!”. I want women to assert themselves, not just cope with problems. The same Bharati that you mention – who, BTW is my favorite poet – says, “Rowdram Pazhagu” (Get Very Pissed!).
Priya Raju, the line of thinking appears to be go tangent off the line and skewed …it appears the comments are neither a reformer or moderate but only an angry comments …I suggest you to read Shakespeare “Taming the Shrew” to understand the impact of being angry by one and all – Same Bharathi said to question the practices with reasoning strongly and not angrily …!! I am not interested further to continue !!
AmV – What makes you think I’m eager to continue this scintillating discussion with you? I’m not forcing you to read my post & comment on it. Stop reading if it makes you so angry. I won’t be heart-broken, you know.
You yourself are irritated now, aren’t you – you are not exactly reasoning things out here.
My post is about Malini. Everybody else commented ON THE POST. Let me point out that you were the person who started a tangential discussion on “Why I had to point out child marriages that happened 20 years ago, instead of discarding the memory”. I have to provide my rebuttal. Just because you find my answers distasteful doesn’t make them skewed.
If you don’t want disconcerting answers from me, ask questions directly related to the post. Instead of telling me that I should avoid raking up the past. Its a free country & that means I can write anything I want, as long as no laws are broken. Those are my unassailable rights as a citizen – please read up on what our “fundamental rights” entitle us to do.
For your kind information, the title is “Taming OF the Shrew”. And the “Taming…” is about an irritable woman who’s short-tempered in general about minor things in life. It does not address righteous anger directed at a problem. Its sad that you don’t understand the difference. It also appears that you haven’t understood the basic premise of that play. Thanks for the recommendation – Though I think I’ve read most of Shakespeare’s important plays, “Taming…” included.
“Sirumai Kandu Ponguvai” – says Bharati. Translated – “Boil with Rage at Meanness”. Once you know the problem, anger & outrage motivate you to assert your rights. Anger & Analysis/Questioning are not antithetical to each other. You should think about it.
Priya Raju, your comments has forced me to continue to comment for quite obvious reasons + to prove that you people hv failed to notice the change happening + harping on 10-20 years event just to gain lowly recognition !! + this is internet world and I do hv freedom to respond here and everywhere
I am sure that you will continue to reply to all the responses till some-one says to you to point of pampering that the instances of 10-20 years stated by you are really tearful, sad , sickening and we need to boil with Range at Meanness …(:) ..at that point of time, you rest in peace …however…do not expect that from me forever…
I still state that the reference to 10-20 years event by yourself is only to get into self-pity mode + gain lowly recognition in the forum like a cheap politician and to support this point, Bharthi is quoted “Boil with Rage at Meaness”…This self-pity mode is kept rekindle by people like yourself who failed to see that a Definite Change has happened tremendously in Indian women thereby obstruct this Change process to a Very great Extent…Incidentally, it is woman who spoils the progress of another woman …your post amplifies it
I hv stated very clearly that ways and means needs to be found to help the woman to handle new challenges in life and stated few areas …this aspect has been conveniently ignored and you have taken-up a non-issue ….
I am sure you hv not met Sheila Rani Chunkath or Gariyali – both are Senior IAS officers of Tamil Nadu Cadre and just dropped names …I hd a priviledge working them and they are practical , understood the issues of women and hv contributed their efforts for improvement as Collectors / Secretaries to the Government and still continue to do so …
Can you state what you have done in this regard to overcome this situation i.e early marriage …hv your educated your maid-servant abt the early marriage or marriage issues or helped her to face the world when her husband tortured her or did you give education atleast writing skills to your maid servant so that she can sign her name and write a letter of appreciation or compliant to you
Hv you counseled those girls to continue schooling and not to drop out ?? or did you find out the reason for the drop-out I am positive that you would not have done
Now where is that Rowdran Pazhagu (Get Very Pissed) of yours ….hs it long into slumber or hibernation ….
I am positive that you would hv skipped and escaped to this utopia Age of Innocence and state impolite Get Very Pissed ….. ” The same Bharati that you mention – who, BTW is my favorite poet – says, “Rowdram Pazhagu” (Get Very Pissed!). or you might still escape stating that no maid servant working or why should I – this attitude of people like you dropped anchor on the Change and then harp that such event happened years ago + state censorship + my writing made traditional people uneasy + quote Bharathi “Get Very Pissed” + Boil with Rage on meaness …
it is indeed the height of unreason and self-pity which delayed the Change and you represent it + yet harp on it as your right to only highlight the wrong thing and shall not do nothing to discourage ….
Your line of statement “Get Very Pissed” were indeed distasteful, shameful, unethical and uncivil …. …do you know the meaning of “Get + Very Pissed ” …since you are angry with meanness that you hv not understood the precise meaning of the word “Pissed” – a lowly unethical statement to be used in this matured forum
Please read the post of Sujatha / Vamsi who has given a matured direction stating that the Change has happened yet still more needs to happen and that too rapidly + that is reason that early marriage is a social issue
I am sure that you are pampered lot to point of being uncivil and impolite to state “Get Very Pissed” and a disgrace among this matured forum. You are indeed the Shakespeare Shrew throwing tantrums “Get Very Pissed” without knowing the meaning of the usage
It is indeed a disgrace that a link is found from the enlightened forum “Aryan invasion theory” – where the discussion is matured yet maintain decorum and make the forum as an exchange of information and analysis.
AmV – You are a real freakazoid, aren’t you? How did they let you escape that zoo without your keeper?
This is my post. And blogging etiquette demands that I respond to all comments. You are probably a “last word freak”. That’s your problem, not mine.
I thought you were quitting the discussion? Please don’t change your mind, we were enjoying your absence. My, my – all this abusive name calling just because I won’t listen to you “telling me what to write”. And you think you are civil?? Your lack of introspection is embarassing. Please read your vitriolic comment. How decent is that?
You must be a presumptuous moron to assume you know everything about me, a perfect stranger. How are you positive that I haven’t done anything? That’s pathetic. While I don’t have to explain what I do to help women to every idiotic troglodyte like you that stops by my blog – you leave me no option.
I have quit my job – my very lucrative & senior management job in an MNC – to help people, especially women, young girls, minorities. I do all that for free. I’ve helped countless under-privileged people to get educated, get a job or just spend time mentoring them. I still do. Now, get that thru your thick skull, you jerk.
I don’t write “Agony Aunt” columns, doling out palliatives as advice. I believe in being part of the solution & doing my bit for this world. All this anger comes out of my compassion & my sorrow at the system that creates victims. Only fools like you will fail to see that.
You can get the hell out of this blog if you don’t want to read my post. What is unethical in saying pissed? You are raving mad & out of control – should we up your medication, I wonder now. Why don’t you read the civilized comments from Vamsi & Sujatha yourself? You are clearly as uncivilized as a baboon.
What’s wrong with “name dropping” as you incorrectly call it? You haven’t met Sunita Williams or Indira Nooyi, have you? And for your information its called “name dropping” only when someone pretends to know somebody else. Whatever you learnt from Gariyali, it wasn’t good English. Again, you assume I wouldn’t know any high-flying people! Is there any wonder I’m contemptuous of you?
Any further stupid, abusive comments from you will be deleted – see how we’ve treated 2 of Senthil’s comments in this post. I’m leaving this comment intact so that all readers can see the kind of scum that sometimes visits our blog. Whenever we feel like sniggering at you, we’ll read the above comment. Thanks for leaving a priceless gem of a blabber for our reference.
Inflammatory & Disrespectful comment deleted. – Author.
Sujatha – Thanks for passing along Amartya Sen’s link. I read it with great interest. As always, the thoroughness of Sen’s analysis is impressive.
I particularly liked the part where he proves that a woman’s ability to earn a wage is correlated to her survival, life expectancy & health.
Working or quitting their job should be primarily the woman’s decision. Of course, she can take the opinion of the family into account, along with their present condition. But sometimes, women are forced to resign their jobs. It can wreak havoc on the woman’s self esteem.
@Priya Raju – Good post again from you. Thoughtful/ thought provoking post. You have not only shared your grievances but you have also tried helping out your maid’s daughter from early marriage. Hope she accepts your thought and gives sometime for that girl to get married. You can only take the horse to pond…! People write about certain things, but many dont adhere/follow up/ do something about it. But you have tried helping and that is to be applauded!!! Your style of writing and the flawless language makes anyone envy! Great post/thought. Looking fwd more from you. Help more people. It’s amazing to know that you have given up your job to help women!!! Good to know you.
@ AmV – Great! Wow!!!! You know Gariyali? Wow, does she know you or is it just a name dropping? How does it matter BTW? you comment/dont that’s wat matters. I would like to ask you a few questions
1) Are you a school teacher correcting Priya Raju’s blogs/english/teaching her manners? Pratice then preach?
2) Dont you think it is a show down for you if you write such unparlimentary comments?
3) Don’t you think before enlightening people on women’s suffering; under-priviladged women rehabiliation begins by showing some respect to them? I dont think you know/show respect to women. Could guess the way you comment on Priya Raju’s post and how you (mis)behave even with a stranger.
4) Who are you to ask Priya Raju to read Shakespeare’s works, earlier in her blogs, she has stated that her parents are Professors of English and she has been a senior manager in an MNC, what gives you courage to ask someone to read something, pressuming they are ignorant of what you talk. What is wrong in her write up? Cant you see that it is just expressing a grief and not a remedy for such people? Blogs can be of any sort? All of us needn’t be social reformers.
5) Have you read Shakespeare’s works or just the titles? Even that has mistakes.
6) “Get Very Pissed!” can also be taken as – “FIGHT FOR A GOOD CAUSE”. Why do you misterpret or you really take everything in a wrong sense? If so, kindly refrain from commenting!!!
7) Lemme ask you something… Have you done anything good/felt bad for women who suffer and are being harassed? Or can your comments be included as a way of harrasing women?
Whatever you said were unparlimentary, inflamattory, uncivilized, foolish, unconnected and male chauvenistic. These treatment in person deserves punishment. Hope you never try this with women in person!
“poovodu serntha naarum manakkum” – Sad that you haven’t changed yourself even after working with these great women!!!
IRONY here is Priya Raju is aggrieved about women/girl’s condition and their denial of rights in India, but AmV, a perfect stranger badmouths her, just because she didn’t conclude her post with a solution. is Priya Raju a social reformer? Or ever she claimed she would change India to a paradise?
I really feel, more than Malinis, AmVs need treatment for gender neutralisation and to cease them abusing women! I could sense that AmV is a male!!! If not, how can a woman be so disgraceful, uncivil/ indecent?
Leave alone the girls who suffer, look at the way a women’s write up is commented! Hope atleast women have rights to express their grievances, in future atleast 2100??? or Will there be any AmVs commenting like this even then?
Would appreciate no more comments from you.
Vampire – Thanks for your comment.
This AmV chap now – s/he makes Senthil look like a choir boy
Senthil was decent in avoiding personal attacks as much as possible. I was actually thinking fondly of Senthil after reading AmV’s, er, comments.
Well, no one can blame this BLOG for being sedate
@Priya Raju – You are most welcome. Senthil tries expressing his views but somewhere he goofs up, sways from track and debates on unwanted/irrelevant subject. Still he is far….far better than AmV. Succha desecnt Senthil can never be compared with an ill-mannered person!
Vampire – I’m glad we agree. Senthil may be guilty of going off track, but he’s a gentleman. He would never stoop to such levels.
All it takes is 1 AmV for us to long for comments from Senthil & Venkat
I’d rather argue with them anytime!
AmV,
As the owner of this blog, I read your comments with utter disbelief. Are you a human being? I doubt that very much. As Vampire says above, don’t ever try this behavior in real life with people. For all your foulmouthing, you don’t have the courage to reveal your name. Not only are you a scumbag you’re an impotent spineless one at that. It is all very easy when you can hide behind AmV and say any nonsense that comes to your mind. It takes courage to speak your mind when it comes with your name attached. Get that through your thick skull when your brain has those momentary spasms when it might be working.
Sukumar – Thanks for your support.
When I wrote this post, I should have mentioned clearly that only people with an IQ of 80 or above can understand it. Poor AmV, that’s probably a stretch target for him.
He was under the impression that I was a disgrace to this BLOG owned by Sukumar Rajagopal – I deleted that comment after reading it. His admiration for you was so touching. He must be all heart-broken & cut up to see this comment from you
Like I care
@ Priya Raju – Sorry I would like to correct you here, AmV is a disgrace to homosapiens! He is not fit even to read this BLOG! But Priya you have proved that 1980 scenario hasn’t changed much. Harassments still continue by AmV kinda people. This is an eye-opener!
@ Sukumar – Well said and thank you for agreeing with me. It’ll be good if you could ban such people from commenting/posting.
Vampire – Thanks again. But must we be that hard on AmV? He’s probably just terribly old fashioned – and draconian as a result of that. He has probably seen too many bad Indian films, where all the problems are solved in/before the climax scene. Hence his expectation for a solution everywhere.
@ Priya Raju – He didn’t think twice to badmouth in a public forum, he was too hard on a stranger, his words are just reciprocated. BTW he must have been carried away by Anniyan sorta films! Never mind. You keep posting.
Lovely post Priya. By the time i reached the last line i had lump in my throat. irnoical dont u think that i read this post on women’s day when all around me everyone is screaming “Women’s Lib”, “Reservation for women” etc and somewhere out there is a 38 year old girl who is probably going to become a grandmother soon and has a husband who is 55!! Brrrr.. scary thought!!
Brilliantly written as usual.
This post of yours reminded me RK Narayanan’s works. Maybe the south indian flavor, maybe the language. something. i dont know. Lovely!!
Priya,
I missed to read AmV’s comments earlier. I first thought about not commenting on it at all – it’s already stated, water under the bridge, he/she has been banished, why rake it up again etc. Then again, not commenting about an atrocity would only make me an accomplice.
When I initially read the comments by AmV ( http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/02/27/the-age-of-innocence/#comment-2350 ), I thought it was a young school/college kid who is not aware of current scenario and is commenting that things are rosy and have improved tremendously and there’s nothing to complain. AmV also suggests for you to take up “how to help girls and woman to handle marriage, family, work-home life balance, career development, how to fight the divorce cases”.
On reading it again, even the suggestion is talking about how to make women handle work-life balance, handle marriage – sounds like there’s nothing in it for a man to contribute on marriage or work-life balance – chauvinistic!
On continuing to read the rest of the comments, AmV’s age grew in my mind. Now, why would a total stranger tell you that you are wallowing in self-pity! I think what AmV is trying to tell us here is, don’t speak up! further more, don’t speak up about any women atrocities. If you do, you are wallowing in self-pity and you’re stopping women’s progress. I fail to understand how talking about a problem can be construed as stopping progress?
While AmV is asking you to take a reformist approach, he/she fails to understand that first step in reform is to agree and understand that there’s a problem. If you’re not allowed to talk about the problem, when/where do you reform?
On a lighter side, AmV is getting irritated with the word “pissed”. I wonder if he/she has constipation or UTI issues
What an old fart?
Revathi – Thanks for your comment.
R.K.Narayan? I think you are too kind.
The sad part is, women in India still have miles & miles to go when compared to their counterparts in developed nations.
NK – Thanks for your comment.
You are absolutely right. AmV just wants women to learn coping skills – not fighting skills. And if there’s a problem, the woman has to fix it all. Its a rotten attitude well past its shelf life.
He was fuming furiously – because I said I was angry. Now if that isn’t hypocrisy! Perhaps he thinks I shouldn’t become angry because I’m a woman!
A man who thinks a perfect stranger should “obey” him & stop talking, just because she’s a woman – is no reformer. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Priya – Fantasic write-up. I have been reading your posts for quite sometime, but this is the first time I commenting in your post.
This post reminds me of my class mate. She got married during first year of Engineering and continued her education. Apparently, she couldn’t do both housekeeping and eduction together, flunked few papers & couldn’t complete Engineering in four years. The story behind her marriage was all the more stupid – Her grandfather, in the death bed, wanted to see her granddaughter married before he kicked the bucket. All he manged to do was ruin that girl’s future.
Balaji – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
What makes me mad is this. According to that grandpa, the only major milestone in a girl’s life is marriage!! How did her parents agree? Engineering is difficult enough to complete, without the added responsibilities of managing home & in-laws. Why didn’t the girl put her foot down?
Perhaps her parents are glad that their daughter has beautiful kids when her class-mates struggle to manager a career & a home. Perhaps they think a woman’s destiny is being a wife, mother & daughter-in-law.
Priya, thats the other side of the problem. The girls don’t talk against their parents. There might be plenty of reasons for being submissive, but listening to their parents in such cases is only going to make their life so much worse.
Just now I went through all the comments and I have become you fan.
We all discuss about almost all of the problems prevalent in our society, but when it comes to being a part of the solution, we do an absconding act. Most of us do not know what are we afraid for, but we are afraid of something thats holding us back from doing our bit.
//All it takes is 1 AmV for us to long for comments from Senthil & Venkat //
Meenaks – Thanks. I think AmV is from a generation where younger people & women were treated as delinquents! And they were expected to shut up when their “superiors” found them annoying
Better for us to have a conversation with people who attack our opinion – than to talk to someone that attacks us.
Balaji – Thanks for your kind words.
Many people find it difficult to fight for their cause, since they have a distaste for confrontations. Its better then for people to do something positive – then, they are working for their cause, not fighting against an evil.
Priya…
It is a wide spread practice in most familes in the old days.
But I feel ashamed of myself for letting that happen in the recent past. How would you think you will react if the family decides on this kind of situation that a 29 yr old marrying a 16 yr old is perfect . If you are the only person who speaks against that , ultimately ending with a stamp that this person “broke the family”….
Is it the person marrying ( man) should have the social responsibility to say NO?? Why are the girls always thought of as the “bad guy” here.
I really want to prevent this from happenning…
Vetti Sinthanai – Thanks for your comment.
The sad part in Malini’s story is, nobody said “no”. Not Malini, not the guy that married her, not her parents – nobody. I don’t think girls are projected as being bad: After all, Malini was a minor & the 29 year old man could have put his foot down.
But out of it all, this is what I think. We should all take responsibility for our lives. There’s a lot to be said about being assertive & taking control of our own lives. What’s the use of blaming society in a diffuse manner for such ills?
An interesting news.. Russian president putins (54) marriage with a 24 year girl..
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080047169
/** Ignorant part of the comment by Senthil – where he doesn’t know the difference between minors & consenting adults – removed by Author. **/
/**Ignorant, Belligerent comment & hate messages from Senthil removed, to enhance reading pleasure for all. Correcting him & pointing out the difference between truth & lies to him is futile. – Author.**/
Thanks Priya for your comments.
Again.. the continuation of the story is I encouraged one such girl to go to college. She was very good in math and science. much better than i can expect from a municipal school.
She passed 10th Standard after 3 yrs of break .. I pushed her for that . She was not accepted in most schools due to the age restriction. I had to use all the muscle to get her into this new school.
The girl’s dad took money for the entire 11th and 12th standard from me. The girl went back to school and the dad practically made this 16yr old girl my sole responsibility. I dont shun responsibility.. atleast not in these kind of cases. I can make one step at a time. I am hoping this other girl lives up to my expectation . I am hoping to send her to nursing school if she can score good marks.
I am sure this girl is facing lot of problems in school while her same aged girls are already mothers and wives. Who can help this person. I can do it money wise. on a day to day basis this girl faces more challenges than the one that just married and lives the life she knows of . How can I protect from the verbal abuse and the social bashing on her . When all I wanted her to have a decent life for her.
The one who married this 29 yr old becomes a respectable wife while the one who wanted to be something faces myriad of challenges.
My point is it is easy to make them go to school , they need more of a social acceptance and get emotional support.
But I think that it must be the parents responsibility to look after the good of the children. If they cant make the better decision for the kids then came the govt telling them not to get the girls married at 16 or 17.
It is not the age where kids/ young adults can make a life changing decisions. Is this the popular belief that the “girls are a burdensome” that is leading these girls in to this direction.
Also the media to blame. How many hit movies show that it is okay to be in love ( i dont know what to call) with older person.
These are the movies that will run in the B /C centers for 100 days.
Why ….. because people accepted this. Rarely we appreciate the children in our lives. I feel sad for those who go through either direction as in my story .
When children are treated as children , we bring the best in them.
PS: the married one in my earlier post , I am asking her to go to college , I am hoping she will after the baby is 6 months old.
Vetti Sinthanai – Hats off to you. It seems to me that your Sinthanai is not Vetti at all.